moonlight in vermont

gitmike2 · #1 09-29-2010, 11:38 PM

i'm trying to learn this tune in e flat from a real book.
in the 4th measure, the chord is d flat 9#11. corresponding with the word sycamore. i don't know how that fits into the tonal center of e flat............or is it a very brief tonal center change?

next question, is there a voicing around the third or fourth fret where i can play the raised 11 and the third of this chord? or is the third dispensed with?

thanks in advance for any help.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #2 09-30-2010, 12:33 AM

Try x43443 or x4x463. The note outside of Eb major is that Bnat. As for tonal centres, maybe we're dipping into the relative minor (C minor) and this chord could also be a G7b5b13 -- just guessing.

NeillonGuitar · #3 09-30-2010, 12:44 AM

Hi
This is great tune to study chord melody-wise I think.
I've always treated the Db dominant sound there on its own, outside of the Eb tonal centre.
I first got into the tune by listening to a live Sinatra recording with Red Norvo in the 50's (live in Melbourne, one of the few times he played with a small band) - he really bought that b7 change out on "sycamore". Very melancholy.
I tend to play it as just a 3-note G7 off the 3rd fret - the G on e-string (tritone of Db), F on the d-string and Cb on the g-string (the melody note on top). Early on that bar I get the melody notes using a garden-variety Db7 off the a-string, sliding the little finger up to get G. Having the G as the root in the final chord tends to bring the sound together I feel.

Hope this helps!

Neill

hydra · #4 09-30-2010, 01:23 AM

it is out of the tonal center, jazz is constantly moving in and out of different keys. use a Db9 chord 3rd position but bar the first finger to get the #11 (g) on top. your 3rd is on the 4th string.

ChuckCorbisiero · #5 09-30-2010, 01:24 AM

In Eb, I use |Ab6Ab-9 Db13 | at "sycamore" which would be |IV iv- bVII7 |

Johnny Smith plays it in C and I think that's where he goes, to(IV iv-9 iv-6)

For me and I know others(Jim Hall) Smith's version is the the Holy Grail. Well, at least as a starting point.
I use a descending line on the Ab minor9, starting on the Bb Ab G Gb F starting with the pinky. All on the 4th string. Goes to a Abminor 6th chord or Db13.

gitmike2 · #6 09-30-2010, 08:23 AM

thanks for the quick and enlightening replies........

blkjazz · #7 09-30-2010, 05:26 PM

Mmmm...I just play an old Db7. Seems to work pretty good.

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #8 09-30-2010, 05:40 PM

I think the #11 is just reflecting the G in the melody over the Db7 chord.

Flyin' Brian · #9 09-30-2010, 09:54 PM

A whole tone scale works well over that chord as does an Ab melodic minor.

Gerard45 · #10 07-03-2011, 04:12 PM

M-ster · #11 07-03-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckCorbisiero

In Eb, I use |Ab6Ab-9 Db13 | at "sycamore" which would be |IV iv- bVII7 |

Yep, it's bVII7. Not so mysterious or unusual. It's part of what some guys call a "back-door turnaround" (although I never heard it called that until I started frequenting this forum). In Eb, it would be Ab-7 Db7, as Chuck describes.

JonR · #12 07-03-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M-ster

Yep, it's bVII7. Not so mysterious or unusual. It's part of what some guys call a "back-door turnaround"

Exactly. A very common cadence.
It's related to the minor iv chord; hence the use of the melodic minor scale of IV on it. ie, for Db7 in key of Eb, use Ab melodic minor. Ie, Db lydian dominant. It's the closest scale to the diatonic Eb major which will incorporate all the chord tones.
The unusual thing about its use in Moonlight in Vermont is that it resolves to Fm7. Normally a bVII goes directly back to I, or down a half-step to vi.
(A bVII9 chord goes very neatly to Imaj7, with 3 half-step descents, same as the minor iv does.)

BTW, my favourite fact about Moonlight in Vermont is that none of the lyrics rhyme. Ever noticed that?

ChuckCorbisiero · #13 07-03-2011, 10:26 PM

Carl Thompson the luthier hipped me to Johnny Smith's album Moonlight in Vermont. I was over at Carl's house on Court Street in Brooklyn around 1976 because he was designing a solid body guitar for me. Anyway, being just 16 and totally green, Carl changed the subject to, "Hey, listen to this record here. What do you think of that?" I was floored and hooked. Carl then said something like," I'll make you the guitar, but it's you not the guitar that's gonna do the playing. O.K.?" He was a very generous guy, to say the least.

Gerard45 · #14 07-04-2011, 02:26 AM

As I wrote before, I use Bb7#11 at 'Sycamore'.

Here you can listen how it sounds:

http://v7.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=zl9hex&s=7

By the way: I have had no music education (learned guitarplaying all by myself).