accompanying a vocalist

guitarone · #1 07-17-2008, 04:48 PM

Hi all
I would really like to know more about accompanying a vocalist when performing jazz standards. What to play, what not to play, (are there really any rules)? Joe Pass sounds fantastic with Ella but his guitar ideas come thick and fast and are hard to copy. Where does one start when working with a singer in this style? Any ideas are very welcome.

guitarone

m78w · #2 07-17-2008, 04:55 PM

I would try having a strong bassline/bass notes so the singer can feel more comfortable with the tonalities. And don't be afraid to stick to simple Freddie Green voicings when the singer is singing, Root-7th-3rd, or Root-3rd-7th. This will provide a nice cushion for the singer to work with, then in between phrases you can add some single note or chord riffs ala Joe Pass.

The best way to learn this stuff is to go out and do it. Grab a local singer and jam on tunes, you'll be suprised how fast you can pick this stuff up that way.

MW

guitarone · #3 07-17-2008, 09:51 PM

Thanks MW
I do find that perhaps I try to put too much into the guitar accomp parts.
Simplifying the chord might be a better way to go. That way I can really spruce it up when soloing. Great advice thanks

Guitarone

mr. beaumont · #4 07-17-2008, 09:59 PM

accompanying singers is one of my favorite things to do.

#1, i'd say, pare down your voicings. get an idea for what he/she may want to try. then you can start "giving them suggestions" harmonically.

#2 give the singer a good steady rhythm until you both feel comfortable going off.

#3 be prepared to play songs in keys you haven't played them in before.

that's my advice. i think you'll find if you work with a decent vocalist, it's a hell of a lot of fun. and sometimes, it's who you don't expect--the most professional singer i've worked with was, i kid you not, 17 years old. what an ear!

Stackabones · #5 07-18-2008, 12:30 AM

The "hipper" your voicings, the worse it can be for singers. Don't bury the melody note. Keep a steady rhythm. The moment your comping becomes noticeable, you've failed. Picture a banquet with a bunch of great food and flowers and an incredible centerpiece ... you're the table.

In general, be careful about suggesting songs until you really, really know the singer. If the singer doesn't dig the song, but you really think it's awesome ... the singer wins and you don't do the song. Don't press the issue.

Learn your singer's range. With a female, know where her chest and head voice ranges are; with a male, know where his falsetto begins.

Jake Hanlon · #6 07-18-2008, 02:28 AM

You have to first and foremost listen really really closely to what the vocalist is doing phrase wise. You have to also follow their body language a lot to find out where they're putting the ends of their lines.

I love to play solo with singers it's so much fun to do especially if the Singer not only is doing their own thing but are actually singing along with your thing, it's a great communication that can happen.

I tend to use a lot of 4 note voicings, provide a strong bass movements (roots and fifths or walk downs) and give them the melody notes when I can put them in but never spoon feed. Be prepared to really lay down the form of the tune solidly. Don't play anything weird at harmonic cadencial points and becareful about any subs you put in. Alot of singers work shit out with a piano and thus have in their minds ear a version of the harmony that you might want to improvise with under them and they just don't know how to react to that tri-tone sub you played.

However, I never compromise to any great length my own interests. I try and play my way and let them know that we can worth together. I love sitting with a singer and just go through tunes out of book. Much fun.

Herby · #7 07-18-2008, 08:15 AM

Lots of good suggestions here. I can only add that for me personally, having done probably 90% of my past gigs on solo guitar, I have to remind myself to lay back and remember what my gig is here — accompanist. When I'm solo I want the guitar to stand out. When I'm with a singer I'm trying to make her look good. I have fun in finding the art in that.

guitarone · #8 07-18-2008, 04:28 PM

Thanks for all your responses. Some fantastic advice here that will keep me thinking for ages. More than I could ever have hoped for. You are all fountains of information. What a great site.

guitarone

Stackabones · #9 07-18-2008, 04:41 PM

I've been racking my brains over a book title! Just came upon it ... Gerald Moore, The Unashamed Accompanist. From a classical perspective, but it provides great insight into the art. I read it at my library ... appears to be out-of-print. Short read, about 120 pages or so.

I'm going to check it out again!

Herby · #10 07-18-2008, 05:46 PM

I love that title Bones. I'm going to the library.

Sailor · #11 07-26-2008, 03:38 PM

I'm going to start playing with a vocalist in a duo setting. Any suggestions for extending the songs instrumentally. I don't want to just play another verse of chord melody; do you do a comping thing in between vocal sections???????

Sailor

Stackabones · #12 07-26-2008, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

I'm going to start playing with a vocalist in a duo setting. Any suggestions for extending the songs instrumentally. I don't want to just play another verse of chord melody; do you do a comping thing in between vocal sections???????

Sailor

Usually you do the comping thing during the vocal sections and then do chord-melody.

Other soloing ideas ... walk bass lines, comp chords, chord then lines, etc.

Sailor · #13 07-26-2008, 07:58 PM

Thanks stackabones - I thought that full chords, two to a bar might help the singer along better than comping. I also thought that the chord melody would sound like too much of the same thing during a vocal break. I only sing and play alone now so I have a lot to learn.

Sailor

Stackabones · #14 07-26-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailor

Thanks stackabones - I thought that full chords, two to a bar might help the singer along better than comping.

That's one method of comping (playing two chords to the bar if that's what the song calls for), but you don't have to play full chords to comp.

Typically, I don't chord-melody solo while the singer is singing (whether I'm singing or I'm backing up a singer). Sometimes it can be a nice effect to play the melody while the singer sings the melody ... but you've got to be careful when you do that -- kinda hems in the singer too much imo. Usually just better to comp, walk bass lines and things like that while the lyrics are up front. Save the chord-melody solo for the solo.

Footprints · #15 07-27-2008, 06:40 AM

I began working with a singer a few months back - the usual repertoire, which we both love - and I feel I'm doing OK. However there was one gig I couldn't make due to family committments, so she found another guitar player - a REAL jazz guitarist

- I thought my position in her guitar chair was over. I managed to turn up for their second set, and the guy's playing reinforced my fears - he was all over the place. A great player. I slunk out before they noticed me.

However... although this guy wants to do more with her, she said she much prefers me. I said, 'Why? The guy is great'. Her reply? 'He doesn't listen. You listen'. I've kept my job.

So, you don't need to know all the advanced stuff. KISS is the byword for accompanying. Keep it simple and listen to her breathing, phrasing, little improvs she throws in. Try to get some of that stuff into your breaks, so that you sound like the guitar version of her.

I've just bought a Cd called '1am' by Martin Taylor and Alison Burns, doing a similar repertoire. I expected Martin to be all over the place, but it's amazing how he knows when to keep it simple. He listens.

By the way - my first post here. Still very much a student of jazz. Looking forward to learning all the clever stuff which will lose me my job

Sailor · #16 07-27-2008, 09:31 AM

Great response footprints - I am just starting a vocal/guitar duo and feel much the same as you. I'm definitely not all over the place but I feel the backup is smooth, somewhat simple, but pretty(musical!).

Glad you're keeping your gig.

Sailor

Stackabones · #17 07-27-2008, 11:26 AM

Killer post, footprints. Welcome aboard!!! Great reminder that the song is the thing and listening is key.

Too many guitarists (and pianists for that matter) get into the duo thing and say they won't change how they play, that they won't sacrifice their sound and concept, when backing up a singer. That's probably what your sub did ... let his jazz ego try to step into the limelight (typical instrumentalist behavior btw). More instrumentalists should work with singers in order to help get their axes out of their jazzholes.

Sounds like you're working with the singer and trying to make the song the star and not yourself. And your singer has noticed. Cool!

Herby · #18 07-27-2008, 03:21 PM

Great posts in this thread from everyone above. I try my best to keep it simple and as I said above make her look good, and also as Stackabones said (paraphrasing) make the song the star. I may do chord melody between her verses and if there's more then one, I try to play a different chord melody. Sometimes I don't even do that... just play the changes. On a few songs — Gershwin's "The Man I Love" comes to mind — I will play the melody along with her on verses towards the end, but when I do, I'm trying to play close attention to what she's doing and compliment it. It's a good opportunity for me to listen. My only other thought here is rhythm, rhythm, rhythm... keep it in the pocket always and you've done your job... anything else you do well is gravy.

guitarone · #19 07-29-2008, 02:15 AM

I have spent many years playing classical versions of jazz standards ie: Duarte, Abril, Almeida etc, and I often find that it works to just play these arrangements along with the vocalist. I just leave out the melody note and sometimes I leave it in. This seems to work very well and seems to set up all sorts of syncopations with the vocalist. There are all sorts of surprises along the way! I am now trying to play a chord melody in the middle as well so as to stretch out the songs. Finding classical arrangements in the right key for the vocalist is sometimes hard, however, it is good to stretch the vocalist's range if you can't find one. And as much as I don't like them, I have found a capo a pretty handy device when approaching accompaniment like this. You can even take a Kayser off for your chord melody and replace it mid flight when returning to the vocal comp.

fep · #20 07-30-2008, 03:59 PM

And regarding tone,

Have you tried micing a nice classical guitar with a condenser mic. I think this is a great option for a female vocalists if the volumns are low. I love the sound of jazz accompainment on nylon strings.

As an aside, there was an album that Joe Pass did that I heard maybe 35 years ago, he was accompanying a female vocalist (wasn't Ella) along with bass and drums. I loved that playing and sure wish I could find that album, can't remember the name though.

m78w · #21 07-30-2008, 04:07 PM

Would that be his album with Carmen Mcrae? If so there's a killer version of Satin Doll on there with one of Joe's best recorded single note solos, and she keeps using his name in the lyrics which is great.

MW

johan_jazz · #22 11-10-2008, 05:41 PM

Singers that i have worked with dont seem to like when you voice the melodynotes in the chords high. So my advice would be, keep away from the melodynotes (not always ofcourse) and focus on extentions and colors instead.

Thanks for a great forum!

/Johan

DonnyK · #23 03-23-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stackabones

I've been racking my brains over a book title! Just came upon it ... Gerald Moore, The Unashamed Accompanist. From a classical perspective, but it provides great insight into the art. I read it at my library ... appears to be out-of-print. Short read, about 120 pages or so.

I'm going to check it out again!

Excellent! I work in a library and have just found we have a copy!!

mangotango · #24 03-24-2009, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Footprints

I've just bought a Cd called '1am' by Martin Taylor and Alison Burns, doing a similar repertoire. I expected Martin to be all over the place, but it's amazing how he knows when to keep it simple. He listens.

I have seen Martin Taylor several times over the years, with a band, sitting in with others, solo, or backing a singer, and never failed to be impressed with his sheer musicality. Man's an underappreciated genius if you ask me.

Despite being from Essex.

By the way, over this side of the Pond, "all over the place" is not very complimentary and not an expression I would associate with Mr. Taylor. Usual "two cultures separated by a common language" stuff.

All over the place - Idiom Definition - UsingEnglish.com

Jazzcat · #25 04-09-2009, 11:09 AM

Try to find some video of "Tuck and Patti" (a husband wife duo - guitar vocal). It is the definitive(in my opinion) example of what you are all talking about. He compliments her so well and they definitely have it all together. Always a treat to listen to and a sheer joy to watch their interaction.

wizard3739 · #26 04-09-2009, 01:52 PM

Comping for my wife (good vocalist) has been my favorite thing to do for many years. Most of the bands we have been in are based around her vocal talents.

1) Be prepared to arrange the music in her "comfort zone" keys.
2) If you will be a Duo, be prepared to provide all the introductions and sometimes just a single chord or note to help her get started in the right key center.
3) Be sure to listen for tag endins or slowing down when she is ending the song.
4) Remember, she is telling a story with her vocals and your job is to help her with a backgound that will not detract from her story.
5) There is much to be learned from listening to a good singer. Listening to the phrasing used by a good singer can help you with your phrasing when playing lead.
6) Remember you will be providing the bass line as well as voicing the chords to highlight her approach to the song.
7) Most important - she is the featured attraction and your job is to make her sound great!

wiz

Jazzcat · #27 04-09-2009, 08:56 PM

I just went to YouTube to look up "Tuck and Patti". What a goldmine!!!!!
Check it out!

Joe Dalton · #28 04-10-2009, 01:54 AM

Yeah, Tuck Andress is an amazing guitarist, his solo stuff is fun too.

blues4alice · #29 03-27-2010, 05:58 AM

Hi.. '
I'm new on this forum, but was interested to see this topic.

Instructors guitarist Roni Ben-Hur (www.ronibenhur.com), and instructor vocalist Amy London (www.amylondonsings.com) will actually be doing a weeklong workshop on this topic in August 2010!

If anyone wants info, here's the link: www.SambaMeetsJazz.com
Alice

Andrew Gough · #30 07-24-2010, 02:40 AM

Hi

I am just starting to work with a female vocalist. (First real post to the forum - some great info here. Thanks to everyone who contributes!)

Does anyone have any good links on youtube of good amateur Vocalist + gtr or vocalist + gtr / bass / dr?

Tuck and Patti or Joe and Ella are inspiriational but I would like to watch something a bit closer to my level as well to give me something achievable to aim for.

Andrew