The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I am a Jazz Guitarist. I am interested in starting a study group (or just a group) of Jazz Guitarists that would like to improve their vocal skills. I am not planning on becoming a "singer" like Frank Sinatra but more like a guitarist that sings like John Pizzarelli.

    Currently I gig mainly in instrumental settings but I would like to add 6 to 10 vocal tunes to my current set lists.

    I an envisioning a group that posts performances of Jazz standards, constructive criticism, suggestions for songs etc.

    Your thoughts and suggestions are welcomed.


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  3. #2

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    What if I want to sing like Jimmy Smith or Keith Jarrett is that cool.

  4. #3

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    Kurt Rosenwinkel sings all his lines, but good luck with those. Slam Stewart or Major Holly? Ah, gotta brush up on my Bach so I can bring Glen Gould to the table.

    David

  5. #4

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    Ari Roland sings his wonderful baselines too.

  6. #5

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    Sorry, count me out. A man has to know his limitations, and singing is beyond my limits. At least singing well enough for anyone other than myself to listen to. And I have a hard time listening to myself, TBH.

  7. #6

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    He doesn't have the big tone or depth of a singer like Frank, but I'm not sure you are giving John enough credit. That cat can sing - and he is really good at it!

  8. #7

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    I sing better than I play. (So says I! ) but this could be good as a group

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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by artdecade
    He doesn't have the big tone or depth of a singer like Frank, but I'm not sure you are giving John enough credit. That cat can sing - and he is really good at it!
    I agree that John Pizzarelli is a great singer, I was not trying to imply otherwise. I guess I was trying to say was that I am still primarily a guitarist, I just want to add a few vocal tunes to my repertoire.


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  10. #9

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    Kenny Burrell sings ballads nicely. Gene Bertoncini is an occasional heartfelt singer of tunes like Estate. Ilya Lushtak is a true vocal artist.

    Then there's me! I've been getting more confident with ballads and singing one every gig or asking to sing when I'm asked to sit in. I'm not a studied or trained singer, but I DO know the songs well, and have lived enough to understand the meaning of the lyrics I choose to sing, or I wouldn't sing them.

    I just think listeners find musicians who mainly play but occasionally sing charming. It shows you have a feeling for the song beyond using it for a solo vehicle. Even if he doesn't have a great instrument (I don't) a musician who picks a song that he can bring off and be believable with will do fine. If you're any kind of musician you'll be in tune and in time. You can use your improvising expertise to ornament a melody or even scat. If you've accompanied and played obligato behind singers you know how to add little things in the cracks---except now you're doing it for yourself. Pretty cool, and listeners will know something musical's going on...

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack
    Kenny Burrell sings ballads nicely. Gene Bertoncini is an occasional heartfelt singer of tunes like Estate. Ilya Lushtak is a true vocal artist.

    Then there's me! I've been getting more confident with ballads and singing one every gig or asking to sing when I'm asked to sit in. I'm not a studied or trained singer, but I DO know the songs well, and have lived enough to understand the meaning of the lyrics I choose to sing, or I wouldn't sing them.

    I just think listeners find musicians who mainly play but occasionally sing charming. It shows you have a feeling for the song beyond using it for a solo vehicle. Even if he doesn't have a great instrument (I don't) a musician who picks a song that he can bring off and be believable with will do fine. If you're any kind of musician you'll be in tune and in time. You can use your improvising expertise to ornament a melody or even scat. If you've accompanied and played obligato behind singers you know how to add little things in the cracks---except now you're doing it for yourself. Pretty cool, and listeners will know something musical's going on...
    Exactly, I have had a lot of success with study groups in this forum so I thought that I (and others) might have some success here too. I sing fine acoustically but as soon as I put Microphone to Mouth it seems to fall apart. I thought that there might be others in the same boat that like to join me on this journey.

    I will try to post something in the next week or so.


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  12. #11
    I'm a singer, but not really a jazz singer. As a jazz hobbyist, I'm still amazed at how much better my respective singer- or guitarist- self is at either task - when not doing both at the same time. I definitely don't experience it that way as much in other styles.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Exactly, I have had a lot of success with study groups in this forum so I thought that I (and others) might have some success here too. I sing fine acoustically but as soon as I put Microphone to Mouth it seems to fall apart. I thought that there might be others in the same boat that like to join me on this journey.

    I will try to post something in the next week or so.


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    Well, there's microphone technique, just like any technique. Not that I know what I'm doing. (Unless you mean it falls apart b/c you get nervous when people can hear it)...

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I'm a singer, but not really a jazz singer. As a jazz hobbyist, I'm still amazed at how much better my respective singer- or guitarist- self is at either task - when not doing both at the same time. I definitely don't experience it that way as much in other styles.
    It's hard for me to sing and play, too. It seems to reduce both. I prefer to just get up to the mic and let people concentrate on the song rather than look perplexed at a guy trying to get it together. Ilya is the same way, and he's in my group.

    It's also traditional (and expected?) for an audience to watch and hear a singer at the front mic...

  15. #14
    I think it falls apart because people can hear it

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    I think it falls apart because people can hear it
    Jazz Guitarists that sing

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  17. #16

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    Well, gonna sing Young And Foolish tonight in Philly, at a session I like with excellent players. Bringing my chord sheet and will recite the verse b/c I haven't mastered it and it would be a different approach to do that and go into the tune proper.

    Wish me luck!

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack
    Well, gonna sing Young And Foolish tonight in Philly, at a session I like with excellent players. Bringing my chord sheet and will recite the verse b/c I haven't mastered it and it would be a different approach to do that and go into the tune proper.

    Wish me luck!
    Good Luck !!


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  19. #18

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    I really like to sing and at home mostly play songs these days that I sing. I'm not a good singer but I've made enough progress to where I can now tolerate recordings of my voice. A singing study group? How would that work? What is the goal?

    It's not hard to hear that someone (or myself) is having pitch problems or their tone is strained, but knowing how to coach them to improvement is a whole different skill. Still, there is a probably a benefit without a coach in the practicing and sharing recordings.

    As as aside, I think the old timer jazz players would often have each band member sing a song to mix things up like fasstrack does. I think it's charming.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I really like to sing and at home mostly play songs these days that I sing. I'm not a good singer but I've made enough progress to where I can now tolerate recordings of my voice. A singing study group? How would that work? What is the goal?

    It's not hard to hear that someone (or myself) is having pitch problems or their tone is strained, but knowing how to coach them to improvement is a whole different skill. Still, there is a probably a benefit without a coach in the practicing and sharing recordings.

    As as aside, I think the old timer jazz players would often have each band member sing a song to mix things up like fasstrack does. I think it's charming.
    I don’t know exactly how it would work. I was fishing for ideas.

    I feel like this is a skill that I need to improve and I have had success with other study groups so . . . . .


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  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A
    Good Luck !!


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    Thanks. We never got to it---to the undoubted delight of the collective Western world (;...

  22. #21

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    I started out as a guitarist who sings a few years ago, and ended up becoming a singer who guitars more recently. I found that I could grab audiences a lot more with my singing than my playing, and have probably spent more time working on my voice than my chops over the last few years.

    Would love to participate in this group and share insights, as I'm always learning about how to blend the two.

    First thing I would highly recommend is to pick up Brett Manning's "Singing Success" tape series. I would say that this is absolutely essential to anyone that wants to sing. You can save yourself years of struggle by just going through these tapes. Takes about an hour a day to get through it for the first time (roughly two-month commitment), but then you can coast on just using the warmup which only takes about 15 minutes. I do that and then focus on singing along with the greats to pick up ideas, and working on developing my approach to songs.

    "Singing Success" is so important because it teaches you how to approach singing physically and get rid of tension, etc. I'd suggest pairing it with really evaluating your technique on the guitar with something like Jamie Andreas' "Principles for Correct Practice", because one of the other things you'll learn really quickly is that if you have tension on the guitar, it's going to show up in your voice. Shakiness, inability to reach high notes, lack of sustain, etc.

    After that, attacking the whole idea of playing and singing simultaneously is a whole 'nother monster. I've gotten to the point where I can play finger style guitar and sing while improvising pretty well. I'm okay at improvising single-line fills around my singing in a group context but am slowly getting better.

    What I'd say is that improvisation is a pipe-dream at first, and you're better served developing static arrangements and then spending TONS of time really getting into the nitty gritty of lining up your singing and guitar playing with the metronome clicks. Then you start picking up little fills, licks, techniques, etc. and working them in. After a couple years of doing that really intensely I got to a point where I could be freer with my singing and guitar playing, but it took a lot of time before it felt like the wheels weren't going to come off the bus. And learning new rhythmic patterns and styles of music can still put you back at that place. I think it's a lot like learning hand independence on piano.

    Good luck! Happy to answer any specific questions and share what knowledge I've gleaned about this stuff so far.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    First thing I would highly recommend is to pick up Brett Manning's "Singing Success" tape series.
    Is this the one or is there another shorter group of tapes? Brett Manning's Singing Success: Brett Manning: 9780972282413: Amazon.com: Books That's a bit of a financial commitment.

    I have a decent range, two F#'s (2nd fret low E string) below middle C to the A above middle C (5th fret on the high E string).. I also can blend from my full voice to my head voice, the blend between the two is anywhere from D to F above middle C (I'm not using falsetto). So, given I just want to sing jazz standards and classic rock melodies, I'm pretty happy with all that.

    My problem is pitch, I tend to slide up a bit to find the pitch and have difficulties nailing the pitch and staying on the pitch. It all sounds pretty good to me while singing, not so much when I hear a recording playback. Does the Brett course help with these kind of pitch issues? If so the price would be worth it to me.
    Last edited by fep; 10-15-2017 at 11:18 AM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    Is this the one or is there another shorter group of tapes? Brett Manning's Singing Success: Brett Manning: 9780972282413: Amazon.com: Books That's a bit of a financial commitment.

    I have a decent range, two F#'s (2nd fret low E string) below middle C to the A above middle C (5th fret on the high E string).. I also can blend from my full voice to my head voice, the blend between the two is anywhere from D to F above middle C (I'm not using falsetto). So, given I just want to sing jazz standards and classic rock melodies, I'm pretty happy with all that.

    My problem is pitch, I tend to slide up a bit to find the pitch and have difficulties nailing the pitch and staying on the pitch. It all sounds pretty good to me while singing, not so much when I hear a recording playback. Does the Brett course help with these kind of pitch issues? If so the price would be worth it to me.
    Yeah, that's the one. It's expensive, but definitely worth it considering what you get out of it. I went from struggling to hit D above middle C to being able to crush high Gs in song contexts without a lot of tension.

    I think the "budget" version would be to grab Seth Rigg's book "Singing for the Stars" (or something like that). Seth was the guy that came up with the method, but he isn't as clear of a teacher as Brett, imo.

    Pitch is not really addressed in the series. It's all about just relaxing vocal cords. I'd actually say that Brett's weakness as a singer is his pitch, so you have to address that on your own, but I think that good pitch is unattainable without good technique just based on my experience. Especially at high and low registers. I used to always be flat once I got above an A below C, but once I figure out the right way to get up into my mixed register, I can hit things pretty well.

    Once you have a relaxed vocal delivery, pitch is more about ear than singing technique.

    If you go from a good speech level singing (Riggs or Manning) method and then just focus on imitating great singers on recordings, that's about all you really need.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj

    I think the "budget" version would be to grab Seth Rigg's book "Singing for the Stars" (or something like that). Seth was the guy that came up with the method, but he isn't as clear of a teacher as Brett, imo.
    That book and the accompanying CD changed the way I sing. I use to strain, pinch and go loud to try to hit high notes, now I relax and sing softly into them and go into the blended register. The CD really was just a few exercises, so it was really short in content. Still, the book and CD was very beneficial to me.

  26. #25

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    As the opening track of his album Weaver of Dreams shows, it isn't only ballads that Kenny Burrell sings 'nicely'.

    Neither was Joe Williams limited to singing only blues. On the contrary, the absence of blues diminishes this music.

    The phrase 'finding your voice' has connotations beyond the literal - and has more to do with 'telling the truth' than with music (the easy part).