Smokin' Jazz Guitar Solo over Green Dolphin Street

wkriski · #1 06-10-2011, 11:33 AM

Just posted this

YouTube Video

kudos to Robert Conti

JakeAcci · #2 06-10-2011, 01:09 PM

Cool Will...

You know I usually don't bother critiquing or anything, but I think one thing to consider is where you start and end your phrases...you can really mix things up by experimenting with starting things on the and of 4, beat 4, and of 3, beat 3, etc, and ending phrases on specific beats as well, or experimenting with pre-determined amounts of space. (for example, forcing yourself to rest for two beats or a full measure, etc.) A lot of vocabulary in there and some rhythmic and spacial variety could really bring it out and turn the lines into clearer statements, at least to me as a listener. Just my two cents, this is all stuff I try to work on as well...

wkriski · #3 06-10-2011, 01:13 PM

thank you Jake for your input

Kman · #4 06-10-2011, 01:29 PM

Some killer lines there. You have them down pretty good. Get some furniture in that apartment.

wkriski · #5 06-10-2011, 01:35 PM

lol. it's actually my man cave in a large country home. there's tons of expensive furniture but not in this view

Reg · #6 06-10-2011, 07:27 PM

Nice playing Will... I'm not sure I would call that Smokin... Get the tempo up to a least 200 and really closer to 220 and try the same lines with much more phrasing... and then maybe smokin. Still as I said nice playing ...Not trying to get on your case...but smokin is pretty much established in jazz guitar... Reg

wkriski · #7 06-10-2011, 11:06 PM

do you have any videos that demonstrate this?

23skidoo · #8 06-11-2011, 02:33 PM

Hope you don't mind me speaking for you, Reg, but.....

Here's a link to his youtube channel. He posts some of the best material on this forum, IMHO..... well worth a look....'smokin' examples abound.....

YouTube - ‪Kanaal van Reg523‬&rlm;

BTW - I liked your clip, especially the tone.....

Reg · #9 06-11-2011, 02:53 PM

Hey Will... Like I said I wasn't trying to get on your case... but when you label something smokin' you have pretty big shoes to fill, especially when you imply about yourself. It's usually much better to post something and let others call it smokin'... or what you post had better cover... playing Green Dolphin at 120 and running some scales for one chorus, doesn't cover for self proclaimed smokin'. Like I also said... nice playing, and I meant it. Do you want me to post some Benson, Oberg or Bireli, all of which can cover smokin solos or did you mean you want me to post something, a version of Green Dolphin. I will gladly post a version, i dig tune and that's what I do. Like I was trying to say... I don't think I would call what I'll post smokin... but it will be at a smokin tempo, and I'll blow for a few choruses. I have double today, wedding afternoon and showcase tonight... but let me know and I'll gladly post something later tonight after gigs... I don't think it cool to call your own playing smokin... but we can attempt to cover something in the style of smokin'. Which usually involves fast tempos or at least fast playing while being locked into the groove and not laying back, but actually trying to raise the level of your performance to where someone else might say... wow, that was smokin'.... at least that's how I have always looked at it.
I do have videos all over this forum, but usually more in the instructive direction... Again nice playing would dig hearing more...Reg
Hey Thanks 23Skidoo... I saw your post after I posted, thanks for kind words... really

JakeAcci · #10 06-11-2011, 02:57 PM

I agree with Reg here that I think it's a bit much to call your own vid "smokin' ."

If anything it might make people more critical when listening.

wkriski · #11 06-11-2011, 03:00 PM

This is quite humorous because this is actually a robert conti conti solo from the SMOKING lineman and played at 16ths effectively doubletime (16ths) so any criticism should be directed at his playing.

I don't want to get into forum flame wars so I'll go back to playing since it's not a competition. I'd like to remove the smokin' title if it's possible to change a posts title...

JakeAcci · #12 06-11-2011, 03:21 PM

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Will, I did think you were calling your own (improvised) solo "smokin."

So this is a transcription of a Robert Conti solo?

Flat · #13 06-11-2011, 04:31 PM

Smokin or not, I don't care. That was some nice playing. Good advice in the thread too, but I just wanted to say I enjoyed hearing the video. Some very nice lines in there, I thought. Thanks for posting.

-Flat

wkriski · #14 06-11-2011, 08:55 PM

I removed the word smokin' so hopefully everyone can chill now

I didn't know smokin' referred to a specific metronome speed. Anyways, yes this is from Robert Conti's educational material.

fep · #15 06-12-2011, 01:12 AM

Will, good work on this, you got real good technique and good tone.

The smokin bit was just a misunderstanding... it's just likely when you use a word like that it comes off as the opposite of being humble.

ChuckCorbisiero · #16 06-12-2011, 03:11 AM

My lord. That's hilarious. You guys have a patent on the word "SMOKIN". Wil, sometimes people get what's called guitaritous and things like this bring out intense convictions and impressions which have very sentimental feelings. But, don't mind them. But I gotta say......that's really funny. Wil, keep it up. Sounds great. I SUGGEST you all get a copy of "Bird Lives" and check out Parker's solo on Embraceable You. Now that's "smokin" IN MY BOOK. I wonder what the tempo is? {By the way Bird's Embraceable solo lays great on the guitar.}

Reg · #17 06-12-2011, 09:20 AM

Hey Will... I apologize.. I obviously took your label wrong. But I believe my reference to Smokin, while not a patent... and as I also said... not only a metronome marking but usually involves some fast playing in the groove... or how ever I phrased it... does have standard implications, as Chucks example of Bird's solo on Embraceable You also gives beautiful example of. Anyway, again sorry... I look at this forum as a place for all levels of guitarist to learn and exchange knowledge... My intent, even though I misinterpreted your post...was simply trying to help...
Maybe we should post some examples of what we consider Smokin solos and what and why we would call them Smokin... Tempo,(rate of attacks), harmonic and melodic content, beauty... wow factor... I bet in the end we all have pretty similar opinion of what smokin is... or maybe not. Reg

mr. beaumont · #18 06-12-2011, 10:07 AM

To me, smokin's not just about speed, but intensity as well (though speed's certainly part of it)

Will, the playing was very clean. Was it an improvisation? You're obviously intently watching something as you play...the changes?

Just a small bit of creative criticism--the slower, more melodic lines really seemed like an afterthought to you...in fact there was one point where your head nodded back and forth while playing it that kinda said "let's get this over so I can blow!" to me.

The fast sections are good, but without that variation and some interesting melodic stuff as well, it comes off a little stiff. You've obviously been putting in some hard work, so just don't neglect that side in favor of chops.

Kman · #19 06-12-2011, 05:39 PM

Smokin for me is about sound and feel. You need to build a good solo and say something. Easier said then done, but a good solo may only have a few moments of real burning guitar.

fep · #20 06-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Will, the playing was very clean. Was it an improvisation? You're obviously intently watching something as you play...the changes?

Yeah Mr. B, I was wondering if it was improvised also. When someone doesn't say in their opening thread you naturally assume it's their work and therefore it's improvised. It goes without saying, that if it's someones elses work that you would give credit where credit is due.

But there was something about the playing, that had me scratching my head.

I had earlier gone to the youtube site and saw this:

Will wrote in the description: "This is a solo to Green Dolphin Street, Robert Conti style...if you're a shredder you might like this too"

Then Will was asked on the YouTube comments: "that was awesome as always. i want to figure out what scales to play that sound jazzy like this someday.."

Will wrote this answer: "thanks! I wouldn't worry about scales, instead try to learn phrases. I superimpose lines that fit over a major7 arpeggio and use them in many contexts"

Therefore, it must be improvised, right?

ChuckCorbisiero · #21 06-12-2011, 08:26 PM

Looks like Will kind of memorized the whole thing and when he takes his eyes away from the page to the fingerboard he rushes a little. I see his eyes following the figures now that you guys bring this up. Will, make sure you really digest the solo though. Transpose it and start permutating the motifs so they are your own. Take it apart now and insert it into your playing since you say it's Robert Conti's solo.

princeplanet · #22 06-12-2011, 10:18 PM

I like how this amusing misunderstanding has led to a small discussion about what might constitute "smokin' ".... and I agree it's not just about BPMs. How about Wes' "Smokin' at the Half note"? That's enough smoke for me.
Like they say, where there's smoke, you gotta have fire....

ChuckCorbisiero · #23 06-12-2011, 10:33 PM

Oh yeah. That's it for me too! I remember locking myself in my room for weeks around 1975 and not coming out until my father would insist I come and eat. Just me, my guitar, my Wes albums.....no kids, no wife, no job, no rent and no worries! What a childhood. Great memories. And for me, that's the definitive "SMOKIN'".

Reg · #24 06-13-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeplanet

I like how this amusing misunderstanding has led to a small discussion about what might constitute "smokin' ".... and I agree it's not just about BPMs. How about Wes' "Smokin' at the Half note"? That's enough smoke for me.
Like they say, where there's smoke, you gotta have fire....

Great example... and obviously if one doesn't have anything to say/play or how ever we want to carefully say as to not offend anyone... it doesn't make much difference what or how fast someone plays... is it worth saying/playing... the BPMs is just a measuring device, a reference... I guess what I always find interesting is how most are quick to jump on a bandwagon when verbally giving or not giving credit or approval to qualities of playing when the subject is somewhat unmeasurable or somewhat subjective... and when the discussion changes to a quality or technique that is very simple to label... most step back... I also do the same thing... it's almost as though we're trying to imply... don't bother to get your chops together... you don't need to have great technique, it will simply destroy your creativity.... Just to be clear... I believe you do need to get your technique together.... I'm not from that school.
Just for info. Almost all the tunes on "Smokin at The Half Note", are well above 200... except for No Blues...196, The Surrey With fridge on top, 174 and the ballads... Yea... we all transcribed Wes, one of the many requirements of playing jazz guitar... Reg

mr. beaumont · #25 06-13-2011, 11:04 AM

That's why jazz is so tough, ain't it? You need chops and feel.

It's not really a fair comparison, but I would rather listen to a player who had great feel and only okay chops compared to someone with great chops and just an okay feel. But there's really no either/or in jazz...

Reg · #26 06-13-2011, 03:03 PM

Yea... Jeff I think you nailed it, you need it all to play jazz well. And I'm with you about the feel... with out it and... well... it's usually obvious. But with out the chops we usually don't use the word smokin to talk about harmonic, melodic and rhythmic concepts... How would Giant Steps be at 60. And it's a given that unless one has the chops to play at a certain level... the feel will never happen for many tunes... simply because one doesn't have the chops to be able to express the feel.
I'm defining feel as being able to recognize the rhythmic accent pattern and the pulse and be where you need to be on the beat, ahead or behind. And be locked into the harmonic rhythm... all this with out having to think about it. Which is pretty difficult with out great technique(chops).
I am only pushing this because technique is one of the easy things... simply takes practice, not much creativity required. Kind of like sight reading, no brains... just practice. But I'm obviously beating a dead horse... Reg

FatJeff · #27 06-13-2011, 03:28 PM

princeplanet · #28 06-13-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reg

I am only pushing this because technique is one of the easy things... simply takes practice, not much creativity required. Kind of like sight reading, no brains... just practice. But I'm obviously beating a dead horse... Reg

Maybe technique involves the cerbellum/muscle memory, while things like sight reading require more of the cognitive cerebral functions, but things like "feel" take more than brains, it's more about emotion, expression, attitude. I'm sure that's what you meant, just wanted to add my 2c and say that it ain't a dead horse! I constantly need to be reminded that I need to improve in these "non cerebral" margins, and that there is much work to do.
It's probably little discussed because it's a slippery thing to define. When I play an inspired line, where is it coming from, my head, my heart, my gut? Or all the above plus the nervous system, lungs, spleen and skin ! ??

Kman · #29 06-13-2011, 09:42 PM

The great lines have to come from the brain, not really the fingers. You need to it hear loud in your head for it to come out. Even if you have great chops, if you don't hear it, it won't come out right.

princeplanet · #30 06-13-2011, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kman

The great lines have to come from the brain, not really the fingers. You need to it hear loud in your head for it to come out. Even if you have great chops, if you don't hear it, it won't come out right.

or feel it deep in you bowels...