Laptop spec

bigbyte · #1 12-09-2009, 09:14 AM

Hi
I am looking get my music stuff off my desktop and to consolidate my recording and playback software onto a laptop and keep it just for home recording and practice as well as gigging later on.

Does anyone have thoughts on a mimimum spec. it will be a PC running XP Pro and have Cubase sx, BiaB, installed and I use a Lexicon Ionix U82S USB2 Audio Interface. I Have a couple of external Hard drives for file storage.

Any thoughts appreciated

FatJeff · #2 12-09-2009, 09:36 AM

I originally installed Sonar on my Dell Inspiron 1721 laptop, and ended up just bailing out - back to a new HP tower. The main problem for me was finding a decent soundcard for the laptop. All the components in a laptop are smaller, and therefore usually don't have as good a feature set as you can find in a desktop. Laptops are pretty much targeted at executives who don't care much for sound quality, just that they can hear their underlings say "Yes Sir" trough the crappy built-in speakers and mic while they video conference in.

Anyway, generically speaking, more memory is always better. 2GB on the Dell was barely sufficient, running XP. The new HP has got 6GB and runs Win7 - and it screams.

Sonar sucks on the Dell. It runs quite well on the HP. BiAB - it ran well on either, so if you're just looking to bring it along for gigs, that might work for you.

I know this isn't much advice, but there you go.

fep · #3 12-09-2009, 08:18 PM

It's free to talk to the experts.

Give these guys a call, you can talk to them for free.

Their computers are just a tiny bit more expensive than Dell and their service is about a billion times better... need help with a computer you bought from them, you call them up and talk to an expert who can remotely access your computer and fix the problem immediately (not someone with a script from India on Dell's payroll who can't answer your question after being on hold and transfered around for several hours - I'm not kidding). At least that's been my experience with both companies.

ADK Pro Audio Digital Audio workstations

musicalbodger · #4 12-10-2009, 05:16 PM

Get a Mac.

FatJeff · #5 12-10-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

Get a Mac.

And spend twice as much $$$. :-)

musicalbodger · #6 12-10-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

And spend twice as much $$$. :-)

But none of the hassle and so much more for your money. e.g. no need to purchase a sound card (whatever that is!)

FatJeff · #7 12-10-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

But none of the hassle and so much more for your money. e.g. no need to purchase a sound card (whatever that is!)

Well, that is probably debatable - but I won't participate in the debate - I have looked at the Macs, but I always run away when I see the price tag. So, I have no real personal experience with them, other than I have a difficult time finding my way around whenever I use them at school (just different ways of doing things, no big deal). I must say that Windows 7 is a pretty damned solid operating system, very easy to navigate, and has presented no hassles for me at all (unlike its COMPLETELY HORRIBLE predecessor Vista). It runs Sonar great and other things like BiAB, RealBand, Transcribe!, etc.

I'm sure that if one were a discerning audiophile, one would always opt for a better soundcard - whether their system was Windows based or Mac based. You actually *do* purchase a soundcard when you buy a Mac, it's just that they don't tell you about it. I would hazard to say that universally, sound on laptops sucks, unless you go to pains to opt for better HW.

musicalbodger · #8 12-11-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Well, that is probably debatable - but I won't participate in the debate - I have looked at the Macs, but I always run away when I see the price tag

So how can you say that it's probably debatable if you know nothing about them but the price tag?

I'm fully aware that I bought a computer with a soundcard included, that was my point — if you buy a Mac, you don't need to even think about a soundcard, it's there already. As for listening to anything on the speakers of any laptop, why should anyone even contemplate the thought. For me to hear a PC user rave about Windows 7 is very amusing, as, apparently, most of that OS has been copied from the Mac system. I've been enjoying that kind of interface for years.

I've used Macs for the past 10 years for graphic design, running a small business, photography and music and they've never let me down once. I've never heard a PC user with that experience. I have a PowerMac G5 and a small Macbook. I can actually make studio quality recordings on my Macbook (using Logic Pro and an Apogee audio interface) without purchasing any soundcard, good or bad. And as for the higher price, I never have to buy additional bits (e.g. souncards, etc.) to make it fully functional.

You pays your money and lives with your choice.

fep · #9 12-11-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

I'm fully aware that I bought a computer with a soundcard included, that was my point — if you buy a Mac, you don't need to even think about a soundcard, it's there already.

Does that soundcard have 6 balanced inputs and 6 balanced outputs?

If not, then I surely would have to think about a soundcard.

musicalbodger · #10 12-11-2009, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Does that soundcard have 6 balanced inputs and 6 balanced outputs?

I've no idea. All I know is my Mac works straight out of the box. I play music, I record in various situations and with various set ups, my recordings are perfectly acceptable (to the point where sound engineers are amazed that I haven't recorded it in a pro studio) and the public like my sound. What more do you want?

Sorry but I don't have time to look around up my own anus, I have too much creating to do.

fep · #11 12-11-2009, 08:40 PM

You might want to record your whole band live with 6 instruments being recorded simultaneously all recorded to their own individual tracks. Or you might want to put several mics on the drummer all recorded to seperate tracks. This is a really basic recording requirement.

To do that you'd need 6 inputs. And if they're balanced inputs you could run really really long mic cables from the instruments (you might need to add direct boxes to convert to mic cables depending on the instruments). Mic cables because of the long runs to the various rooms your musicians are placed in (isolating instruments to avoid bleed).

That's why you'd need 6 inputs. More than 6 would be better. And if you think about sound cards there are choices to be made.

I really don't know the answer for a mac. I'd guess it's two in and two out which is perfectly adequate for most users (as most users are not musicians and don't record musical instruments), this is the same configuration that comes with most PC's unless you select a better soundcard. And this is obviously not a trivial matter.

And has nothing to do with looking up your own anus as you put it (which I take offense to btw)

musicalbodger · #12 12-12-2009, 03:49 AM

PC people think the world is so complicated. For a Mac all you need is to plug in via a Firewire cable (another Mac invention) an audio interface such as Apogee Duet (2 inputs — either 1/4 inch jacks or mics) or Apogee Ensemble (36 channels with 8 A/D). Sure, if you want more than that you might need an external soundcard, but I'm not talking about creating a full on professional studio set up. And nor was bigbyte when he asked about laptop specs.

Quote:

I really don't know the answer for a mac. I'd guess it's two in and two out which is perfectly adequate for most users (as most users are not musicians and don't record musical instruments), this is the same configuration that comes with most PC's unless you select a better soundcard.

So, if you don't know anything about Macs, why are you talking on a subject about which, by your own admission, you know nothing?

Quote:

And has nothing to do with looking up your own anus as you put it (which I take offense to btw)

See the above answer. Where are you taking the fence, btw?

fep · #13 12-12-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

So, if you don't know anything about Macs, why are you talking on a subject about which, by your own admission, you know nothing?

Where did I admit I know nothing?

I have worked with Macs and owned a Mac in the past. Just not for musical applications.

Rather I asked you a simple question... "Does that soundcard have 6 balanced inputs and 6 balanced outputs? " There is nothing "complicated' about that.

You were unable to answer that question. So I explained why that is an important consideration for a musician.

I then guessed that like an entry level PC a Mac probably only has two in and two out. And I was right.

I haven't provoked you in any way and you've now attacked and insulted me three times. Why are you attacking me?

bigbyte · #14 12-12-2009, 02:42 PM

wow!
I just got back and see there has been some exciting activity on this thread.
I really appreciate the posts and the enthusiasm shown, As I pointed out I am commited to PC's I guess I have a long history with them and all my software is obviously based on that format so quite an expense for me to go down the Mac route.
I have been considering a Dell and have been looking at this model suggested by one of their guy's

Vostro 1720 : Standard Base
N1217207
Vostro Laptop 1720 Order - UK
17.0 inch WXGA+ CCFL Anti-Glare Display
No Biometric Fingerprint Reader
Obsidian Black
English Shipping Documents
4096MB 800 MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2x2GB)
320GB (7,200rpm) Serial ATA Hard Drive with Free Fall Sensor
V1720 Resource DVD (Diagnostic & Drivers)
8X DVD+/-RW Drive including software for WIN7
90W AC Adaptor - 3 wire
Primary 6-cell 56 WHr Lithium Ion battery
1 Meter Power Cord (3 Wire) - UK
512 MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ 9600M GS Graphic Card Black
Dell Wireless 1397 Mini Card (802.11 b/g) European
(English) Genuine Windows® 7 Professional 32Bit to XP Professional SP3 (Downgrade)
Internal Keyboard - English (QWERTY)
Microsoft® Works 9.0 - English
Norton Internet Security™ 2009 - 15 Month Protection - English
3Yr ProSupport for End Users and Next Business Day On-Site Service
CompleteCare not selected
1 Year Collect and Return
Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor P8700 (2.53 GHz, 1066 MHz FSB, 3 MB L2 cache)
Integrated 1.3 Mega Pixel Camera
Wireless Label - Core 2 Duo (Dell Wireless Cards)
No Carrycase

I realise there are some people with a poor opinion of Dell support but
does anyone have any experience with this model or a view on the spec.

Thanks

FatJeff · #15 12-12-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbyte

wow!
I just got back and see there has been some exciting activity on this thread.
I really appreciate the posts and the enthusiasm shown, As I pointed out I am commited to PC's I guess I have a long history with them and all my software is obviously based on that format so quite an expense for me to go down the Mac route.
I have been considering a Dell and have been looking at this model suggested by one of their guy's
I realise there are some people with a poor opinion of Dell support but
does anyone have any experience with this model or a view on the spec.

Thanks

My last PC (a laptop) was a Dell. I just bought a new PC (desktop this time), and after a little research decided that the HPs gave me more bang for my buck. You might want to check them our before you decide on a Dell.

tonedeaf · #16 12-13-2009, 10:26 AM

Bottom line on the sound card issue.

When you buy a laptop, you get what you get and there is really nothing you can do about it. This is true of a Mac or a PC. Same thing with the video card (which may be important if you are doing a lot of waveform or other sound analysis). In both computers these components are selected for their size and their ability to satisfy the majority of potential buyers.

If you are recording for yourself and don't plan to make serious demo tapes, you might be in that majority and they may be just fine. However, if they are not, you are stuck. This is simply the tradeoff when buying a laptop. You do not have access to the amazing variety of upgrade parts you can put in a desktop. Some of these are specialized for niche markets, like audiophile quality sound processing cards.

Another consideration is that when a sound card, video card and certain other laptop components go bad, the repair is very expensive. These components are not really "cards" on a laptop, they are directly manufatured onto the motherboard (the main circuit board) and the whole motherboard has to be replaced when they go bad. On a desktop, these are simple plugin parts ("card") that cost $50 - $150 (and are usually better performing parts).

Bottom line: to get convience you give up flexibility and add cost. Understand the tradeoff and you can make a good decision.

[I usually stay out of the mac vs. PC debates, but... I use a Mac at work and a PC at home. They aren't that different anymore and people claiming one is clearly superior to the other are simply telling you which one they like better. (Is everyone aware that Mac no longer has its own operating system but is now a front end for the UNIX operating system?)] .

bigbyte · #17 12-14-2009, 05:29 AM

Thanks Tonedeaf.
I know there has got to be a trade off between the flexibility and upgadeability of the desktop and the rather more fixed spec of the mobile laptop/notebook. It is a fairly easy thing to overcome the soundcard issue by using an audio interface. The graphics card is a differnt issue.

My reason for posting the topic was to see if there was a laptop of preference for musicians that were taking one on the road to gigs as well as covering the bases for practice and recording, and if so what setup they are using.

dirkji · #18 12-15-2009, 05:16 AM

The sound cards that come out of the box with PC or Mac are not suitable for music production. There are 100s of USB or Firewire sound cards on the market today that you can use on your laptop or desktop. The descent ones range from about $200 (Novation Nio) to $10000 and more.

Some good cards are:

M-audio Profire
RME Fireface
Focusrite Saffire
Steinberg MR816CSX
...

I'm going to write some articles about Home Recording, there seems to be a lot misunderstanding about it.

If you need a computer for music production, go for a desktop (PC or Mac, doesn't matter, take what you are used to) and only choose for a laptop if you plan gigging with it.

gazda · #19 12-15-2009, 11:17 AM

A MacBook Pro and a Line 6 UX2 solved most of my recording problems. PodFarm software works better than it looks. I mean, it is an awful software to use, but the sounds are quite good.

Actually, Mac laptops have very high quality audio cards compared to other stuff on the market, but still don't have correct impedance guitar inputs - that is the real problem here. I'll write to Steve Jobs to ask him to produce a MacBook Guitar Pro, a laptop with a proper guitar input or two and Logic Pro as a part of standard installation

tonedeaf · #20 12-15-2009, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbyte

Thanks Tonedeaf.
I know there has got to be a trade off between the flexibility and upgadeability of the desktop and the rather more fixed spec of the mobile laptop/notebook. It is a fairly easy thing to overcome the soundcard issue by using an audio interface. The graphics card is a differnt issue.

My reason for posting the topic was to see if there was a laptop of preference for musicians that were taking one on the road to gigs as well as covering the bases for practice and recording, and if so what setup they are using.

Sorry for getting off topic, but the thread seemed to be going down hill.

I am just starting recording so I don't have a lot to offer on the recording side but I am a software engineer and do some tech work, so here are a few thoughts:

1. Get as much memory as you think you might need (you can never be too young or have too much memory). If you need to upgrade you will have to replace everything you bought -- all manufacturers fill up all the slots with the lowest density memory possible. So if you buy 2GB you will get two 1GB memory modules. If you want to go to 4GB, you have to remove the two 1GB module and replace them with two 2GB (or one 4GB) modules.

2. Make sure you have USB high speed ports (this is probably not an issue but make sure).

3. If you don't need every file you have when on the road, consider taking the stock hard drive that comes with the laptop and buying an external USB drive (terabyte units are available very reasonably).

4. All laptops are made in Asia and they all pick from a small number of subassemblies (USB drivers, ethernet drivers, sound cards, etc.). So I feel the real differentiating feature is support. The company at the top changes from time to time but Dell is currently so bad it is comical -- it is hard to imagine anyone worse. I have been happy with the last couple of times I have had to deal with HP.

Hoopskidoodle · #21 12-15-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musicalbodger

But none of the hassle and so much more for your money. e.g. no need to purchase a sound card (whatever that is!)

Just swallow the Steve Jobs Kool-Aid and ignore the fact that there isn't a tenth as much software for a Mac as there is for a PC

virtuoso · #22 12-16-2009, 03:03 AM

I decided 3 years ago to quit using dektop PC and bought HP Pavilion dv 1137ea model and I'm still using it and cant believe how good is working.Although I bought Novation (cant remember which model),I dont use it because I'm not satisfied with it.HP laptop have such a good soundcard that I plug my instrument,mic,mixer or whatever and record directly on it.Very satisfied.Of course,I use laptop only for that reasons,no internet,no home uses etc.

Hoopskidoodle · #23 12-16-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by virtuoso

I decided 3 years ago to quit using dektop PC and bought HP Pavilion dv 1137ea model and I'm still using it and cant believe how good is working.

I'm just the opposite. I have a 5 year old $3000.00 HP Pavilion ZD7140 sitting on a dresser in my bedroom. At this point I only use it for watching movies streamed wirelessly from my desktop computer. Once I maxed out the memory of the laptop, at a paltry 2GB, there was really no way to upgrade it. That's when I decided never to buy another high-end laptop. They end up being paperweights in a comparatively short period of time.

A desktop is always going to be cheaper for more powerful hardware. Plus, you can almost always upgrade a desktop a couple of times before giving it the boot. I recently upgraded my HP Q6700 quadcore desktop. The crappy proprietary case was too small for an Nvidia 9800GT video card (not to mention the PSU.) So, I bought a very nice water-cooled case and swapped everything into it. The whole thing cost a few hundred bucks, including the Nvidia 9800GT. Now, when I decide to upgrade to an Intel I7 system, I can reuse the same case.

As far as laptops go, it's strictly netbooks for me from here on out.

FatJeff · #24 12-16-2009, 05:16 PM

Pretty much agreed with Hoopskiddle on this. Last laptop I bought, I thought it was a great idea to get the extra-duration battery, the 17" screen, etc...damn thing ended up weighing more than I was willing to carry around with me, and has been sitting on a desk ever since, permanently plugged in.

Interestingly, I did read recently (in the WSJ) that the price of laptop HW is now less than that for a desktop. Doesn't matter, though - you always get more performance for the $$$ with a desktop. If I ever need a small, portable machine in the future, I'll check out a netbook. Maybe even an apple ibook.

Hoopskidoodle · #25 12-16-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatJeff

...the 17" screen, etc...damn thing ended up weighing more than I was willing to carry around with me...

My ZD series HP was one of the first 17" laptops. In early 2004, when I bought it, strangers would come up to me asking questions about it. Of course, the 3.02GHz Pentium 4, 17" screen and Nvidia Geforce 5700? graphics card gave it a real-world battery life, on a good day, of about 45 minutes.

I carried that 9½lb monster every day for a year and a half (plus the powerpack and the folding stand I've always used it on because the fans are on the bottom... and the 3.02 Pentium CPU and Nvidia Geforce graphics card would cause it to be hot enough to fry an egg if I'd ever used it flat on a table. (FYI, it's my personal belief that the stand is the only reason the thing still works. It gives the fans a good 4" of clearance.))

Macbooks are nice... but not for me. I want something cheap and disposable. I always, of course, encrypt the hard drive. So, if I leave it somewhere, so what. Now that there are sub $500 fully functional netbooks (functional for my needs... I'm not doing post production on a $100 million movie on my laptop) I don't plan to keep one for more than a year. If I bought a Mac, I'll feel obligated to hang onto the thing for longer than I'd like to.

JimBobWay · #26 12-26-2009, 09:05 PM

They're just tools, no? But all the information above is real, and the simple fact is that for basic recording/playback/mixing and even mastering, a PC or a Mac will do just fine. In fact I have both OS' running on one box in my lab (another story...). But for serious recording where someone is paying me or I need the highest quality sound, I don't use a laptop.

The box you are looking at (the Dell specs you listed) should be fine for the basics, although RAM is the clincher. Max it out.