Nice to have a MIDI guitar for home recording!

[Jazzarian]

I can't stress that enough.


I often record melodies of guitar/sax/ guitar/flute guitar/trumpet etc in perfect unison. Of course one needs an A/D converter with several inputs to do this. I record the normal analog output of my Roland Strat along with the output of my Roland GR33 simultaneously. Afterwards I pan one right and the other left.


Fun stuff and can sound very realistic when done right.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Jazzarian :

I have a Godin LGXSA with a Roland GR33 and I am very happy with this arrangement . I play keyboard too and never did like the way violins and others strringed synthesizer instruments came off when triggered.

The different ways a string gets sounded from a quick pluck to a long slowly developed quiet to loud taper just can not be done with a keyboard ( or at least for this keyboard player ) compared to how many different ways the Roland GR33 allows you to accomplish this is nothing short of astounding combined with the guitar's string similarity in it's dynamic way to make sound waves that physiologically is the same in construction to the violin's stings .

The midi editing process I am wanting to learn more about . For example , my Didgitech GNX4 DAW can have " patch " changes and stompt/fxs changed on the fly so you don't ave to mess with any pedals when your in the saddle ! I have not learned how it's done but then again I once did not know how to play guitar HEH HEH HEH .

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

[Jazzarian]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Ramon

Jazzarian :

I have a Godin LGXSA with a Roland GR33 and I am very happy with this arrangement . I play keyboard too and never did like the way violins and others strringed synthesizer instruments came off when triggered.

The different ways a string gets sounded from a quick pluck to a long slowly developed quiet to loud taper just can not be done with a keyboard ( or at least for this keyboard player ) compared to how many different ways the Roland GR33 allows you to accomplish this is nothing short of astounding combined with the guitar's string similarity in it's dynamic way to make sound waves that physiologically is the same in construction to the violin's stings .

The midi editing process I am wanting to learn more about . For example , my Didgitech GNX4 DAW can have " patch " changes and stompt/fxs changed on the fly so you don't ave to mess with any pedals when your in the saddle ! I have not learned how it's done but then again I once did not know how to play guitar HEH HEH HEH .

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

Do you ever record the guitar output and synth output at the same time?

I like to record guitar/sax, guitar/flute/, guitar/piano etc in unison for melodies. Very dramatic it is. Sounds like 2 musicians who've practiced their timing for months.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Yeah , I have and it's wild when done live . I found sound combination's that resembled the stuff I heard on recordings and or live shows of Jeff Beck , Lee Ritenaour and other more modern jazz / rock / funk / fusion type musicians . I found these sounds in an accidental type way too for many of the ones I use now .

One wild thing I found out about the midi guitar is when you do a piano bass line on the 1 & 3 using a synth bass voice and then on the 2 & 4 the rhythm a piano and then have the acoustic steel string and magnetic combined it gets really going as if I had a " stride " piano player digging in with it's give and go syncopation , and if I arpeggio the synth bass people can't believe it's only on guy playing all the sounds .

Lately I have been experimenting with live looping and it has a dimension all it's own . I am getting comfortable doing it now .

Just got me reasonably priced large diaphragm so I can record my acoustic steel stringed guitar's sound because I love the way it sounds and I want to have it as a centered type sound to have the guitar syth's sounds enhance and envelope all around it and above and behind it . I hope to play around with 5.1 type soundscapes with displays of big panoramic scene's of different types of desert and alpine mountain terrainnes to Hawaiian rain forests .

Yeah a synth guitar is truly a serious piece of equipment to have in your arsenal .

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

[Jazzarian]

Originally Posted by Hurricane Ramon

Yeah , I have and it's wild when done live . I found sound combination's that resembled the stuff I heard on recordings and or live shows of Jeff Beck , Lee Ritenaour and other more modern jazz / rock / funk / fusion type musicians . I found these sounds in an accidental type way too for many of the ones I use now .

One wild thing I found out about the midi guitar is when you do a piano bass line on the 1 & 3 using a synth bass voice and then on the 2 & 4 the rhythm a piano and then have the acoustic steel string and magnetic combined it gets really going as if I had a " stride " piano player digging in with it's give and go syncopation , and if I arpeggio the synth bass people can't believe it's only on guy playing all the sounds .

Lately I have been experimenting with live looping and it has a dimension all it's own . I am getting comfortable doing it now .

Just got me reasonably priced large diaphragm so I can record my acoustic steel stringed guitar's sound because I love the way it sounds and I want to have it as a centered type sound to have the guitar syth's sounds enhance and envelope all around it and above and behind it . I hope to play around with 5.1 type soundscapes with displays of big panoramic scene's of different types of desert and alpine mountain terrainnes to Hawaiian rain forests .

Yeah a synth guitar is truly a serious piece of equipment to have in your arsenal .

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

I try to avoid any smooth jazz analogies, but certainly Russ Freeman and Chieli Minnucci were doing things like this in the late 1980s.

I suppose one walks a fine line between "jazz" and smooth "jazz" when using guitar synths. At least in some people's minds anyway. I try to keep instruments sounding as "organic" as possible.

OTOH, there's people here that HATE smooth "jazz" but feel compelled to defend (c)rap. Go figure.

[Hurricane Ramon]

Smooth Jazz :

What a crock - -

This so called stuff was in full bloom in the mid seventies from real musicians like Wayne Henderson , Joe Sample & Larry Carlton ,Wilton Felder, and Nesbert “Stix” Hooper, these guys threw down serious stuff . Not like the watered down stuff now being touted as Smooth Jazz .

I'm no snob , I respect anyone out there trying to play their , " heart " and stick to their guns . It's all good as the catch phrase go's .

My take is a more eclectic type with relatively few borders if any . What counts to me is this :

Serious intent to learn as much as one can when it comes to music , all types and genres , even the ones I don't really flip out on .

Even rap - - my kids wonder about me when they see me listening to rap & hip hop and the new R&B ( wow what a let down this stuff called R&B these days ) and they know I'm no real big fan .

I'm just curious mostly and wonder what makes things " tick " , sometimes when approaching a type music that is now quite my cup of tea , I find something uniquely strange and wonderful and that is a good feeling .

I go crazy for Muddy Waters & Miles Davis , T-Bone Walker & George Benson , Jeff Beck & Earl Klugh , The Beatles & Louis Armstrong , Frank Sinatra & Ray Charles , Diana Krall & Melissa Ethridge , The Doobie Brothers & Tommy Emmanuel , The Blues Traveler & Martha Wainwright , Chan *Romero to Richie Valens , Santana & the Buena Vista Social Club , Rye Cooder & Warren Haynes , *Jake Shimabukura & *Gabby Pahinui to give you an idea .

Chan Romero < Chan Romero - Google Search > <===<<<_ I work with Chan a lot too

Jake Shimabukura < || JAKE SHIMABUKURO || >

Gabby Pahinui < Gabby Pahinui - Google Search > Met him , his sons and Rye Cooder while camped on The Big Island Hawaii at the Black Sand Beach Kalapana's Harry K Brown Beach Park < now under 20 plus feet of lava

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

[Jazzarian]

In the 70s is was "disco" jazz. Even Pat Martino!

Ever hear "Stuff"? It was like the Grateful Dead of Disco Jazz.

I think much of today's smooth "jazz" is watered down fusion. It got progressively watered down after 2000 or so to the point its unrecognizable.

I liked Special EFX in the 80's with Chieli Minnucci. Even some of the early Rippingtons and Jeff Lorber. By the mid 1990s I couldn't stand any of it.

[jazzpick]

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Do you ever record the guitar output and synth output at the same time?

I like to record guitar/sax, guitar/flute/, guitar/piano etc in unison for melodies. Very dramatic it is. Sounds like 2 musicians who've practiced their timing for months.

Haha, yeh, I know that feeling, just that didn´t happen at first days of MIDI guitar because of the delay. I had a Roland G-707 and its mastodontic floor GR700 synth , a amazing guitar system at time, I think Roland was inspired in Jetsons for make it hehe. The delay was so huge that when a note was played you were able to see it as a little ball slipering through of the MIDI cable... LOL. Today is different, even though not perfect, actual MIDI guitar systems bring faster accuracy performance that its honorable predecessors. I have a synth ready Godin XTSA guitar, it have superb tracking and even more when a careful tweaking is done in the Roland GI-20 in order to get that personal setting you looking for. Also I put a Roland GK3 in my Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor. I don´t have words for describe the countless hours of enjoyment I get with both of my midi guitars.

Some videos I make with it:

Epiphone Joe Pass midified and Band in a Box
Mina Sambinha, brazilian jazz with Godin XTSA and Band in a Box

cheers!


--------------------------------------------------
www.carlosarellano.com/music

[Jazzarian]

Originally Posted by jazzpick

Haha, yeh, I know that feeling, just that didn´t happen at first days of MIDI guitar because of the delay. I had a Roland G-707 and its mastodontic floor GR700 synth , a amazing guitar system at time, I think Roland was inspired in Jetsons for make it hehe. The delay was so huge that when a note was played you were able to see it as a little ball slipering through of the MIDI cable... LOL. Today is different, even though not perfect, actual MIDI guitar systems bring faster accuracy performance that its honorable predecessors. I have a synth ready Godin XTSA guitar, it have superb tracking and even more when a careful tweaking is done in the Roland GI-20 in order to get that personal setting you looking for. Also I put a Roland GK3 in my Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor. I don´t have words for describe the countless hours of enjoyment I get with both of my midi guitars.

Some videos I make with it:

Epiphone Joe Pass midified and Band in a Box
Mina Sambinha, brazilian jazz with Godin XTSA and Band in a Box

cheers!





--------------------------------------------------
www.carlosarellano.com/music

Hey great stuff. Nice of you to do video. I haven't gotten that far. What did you use to transcribe the notes up on the screen? Finale?

I still have a GI10 interface. It was really slow at conversion. I've found avoiding MIDI altogether by using my Roland GR33 is best for eliminating latency.

I have connected my GR33 to my old Roland XP50 keyboard. The latency isn't much better than my GI10.

[jazzpick]

Originally Posted by Jazzarian

Hey great stuff. Nice of you to do video. I haven't gotten that far. What did you use to transcribe the notes up on the screen? Finale?

I still have a GI10 interface. It was really slow at conversion. I've found avoiding MIDI altogether by using my Roland GR33 is best for eliminating latency.

I have connected my GR33 to my old Roland XP50 keyboard. The latency isn't much better than my GI10.

Hi Jazzarian, thanks. In this case I use Band in a Box 2009.5, the program have a nice feature that let you to record audio and MIDI at same time, a bit likeness how a devoted DAW like Cubase, Nuendo, PT or Sonar does, just Band in a Box work it in a more simple but effective basis. After recording I capture a video of the score playing from the program and I insert it together my live guitar performance in the video software I use, Sony Vegas. Audio is entirely recorded in Band in a Box ! . I love Band in a Box interactivity on letting you to read the chords straight on screen.
About the MIDI latency, GR33 and GR20 latency issue is improved when you use its internal synth engine instead MIDI out which sometimes add up even 40 to 60 ms. of extra annoying delay. GI-20 is not perfect but is considerably better that GR´s midi out and also a little faster than GI-10. I suggest you maybe check critical factors in your GK like height strings distance , I set it to +/- 1.0 mm ( side pic ) in my epiphone Joe Pass. Also sensitivity string and "play feel" setting in GI is important.

Some pics
midi guitar 01 midi guitar 02 midi guitar 03 midi guitar 04 midi guitar 05

[Jazzarian]

I couldn't stand the thought of an external pickup on my Super V CES!!!!! It was bad enough on a stratocaster, to the point I had an internal GK-2A installed on the Strat.


I toyed and toiled with the GI-10 for years. I even bought a half-rack Korg Synth placed right next to it in my rack, with a one foot MIDI cable connecting the 2 units.

The internal sounds of the GR33 trigger quite nicely. It can almost keep up with my fastest playing.

I wonder about those Axon converters. Some say they're better than Roland.

[jazzpick]

Yes, Axon converters tend to be so praised compared to Roland GI-20. Some interesting features in Axon does the miracle apparently, like the Axon's neural-network-detection algorithms "capable of recognizing the exact pitch that you play immediately as you play it, whereas other converters need several string vibrations for pitch analysis".
I personally try Axon AX 50 (USB) from TERRATEC. It work very great with the Epiphone Joe Pass and external GK3 pup, I did feel it faster than GI-20 but sometimes dynamics were an issue. However my Godin xtSA did work bad with the Axon, extremely sensitive, lots of ghost and false notes, the only way of ride it was by disable the "neural" thing, but then the performance was inferior than Roland GI-20 which is my actual converter I use. I think Axon go great for rock "light a feather" touch players plenty of legatos and tapping and Roland GI-20 for accuratte and more dynamic degree of jazz players. Personal anyway.

Two interesting reviews:

Blue Chip AX100 Neural Guitar MIDI Controller, $ 879.95
TerraTec Axon AX 50 USB | guitar-to-MIDI converter

[markyT]

ive got the axon ax 100 . its a dream , ive had all the roland midi guitar synths since gr1 (exept converters), the axon can tell where your picking in the 3 pickup zones and have cc and programs in each of the areas . quite amazed at the tracking ...the 100 has a bunch of quite good sounds for preparation but not really that good ...just general midi sounds and effects ....i recomend this to anyone out there ...its really does the job,, and you can edit the thing on pc ....keyzone for multiple instrument splits in easy on pc ...its a rack, thats the only downer....£240 from ebay