What's the best way to record an archtop?

[Smoke]

I use Garagband or Logic and usualy i just plug the guitar (Hohner ES400) in the sound-in from my Apple Mac...
What is the best way to connect the guitar to the computer? Are there any attachments/usb-interfaces/pre-amplifications/... wich give a remarkably improved better result?

[mr2cool]

i'm using the Boss Micro BR to do my recordings and then import the recordings to my computer where i do my editing through Audacity.

mark

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by Smoke

I use Garagband or Logic and usualy i just plug the guitar (Hohner ES400) in the sound-in from my Apple Mac...
What is the best way to connect the guitar to the computer? Are there any attachments/usb-interfaces/pre-amplifications/... wich give a remarkably improved better result?

I have Logic Studio 8, and granted, it's known more for MIDI than for audio, if you use an external FireWire sound card/mic interface, I think the sound will sound MUCH better.

I noticed a great enhancement in terms of sound quality when I upgraded to the Apogee Duet external Fire Wire sound card/mic interface. It's specifically designed to work seamlessly with a Mac.

More info about the Apogee Duet here:

Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac - Gearslutz.com

[NSJ]

Forgot to add, always check for the latest drivers and software updates from the web--the Duet had a small problem causing the Mac to not come out SLEEP mode, but it was rectified with a software update.

[dirkji]

The best way to record a guitar is by placing a good microphone before your amp. The microphone should be plugged into a good soundcard. Good microphones start at about $750.

[fep]

I can go a bit overboard because I love to tinker around with recording.

Guitar to direct box (the direct box is used to split the guitar signal)

Direct box out to mixer to PC to track 1Sonar (this is my clean unaffected guitar signal)

Direct box link to GNX3000 (amp sim) to stereo out to mixer to PC to two tracks in Sonar, track 2 & 3.

So I record three tracks simultaneously.

Then...

Clean recorded guitar signal (track 1) from the PC out to direct box output (going backwards thru direct box) to amp to mic to mixer to PC to track 4 in Sonar. I end up with 4 tracks of the same guitar performance. In mixdown I may only use 1 of the tracks or mix and match the tracks.

This last step is called reamping. The beauty of this is that you can now adjust your amp settings while listening to the entire mix, completely focusing on the settings as you listen thru the track because you are not having to perform on the guitar at this step. (Note, a nice full stand alone guitar tone may sound great by itself but when up against the rest of the mix it may not sound so great.)

If I had a hollowbody, I'd also place a mic or two on the guitar itself and record it acoustically at the same time that I was recording thru the directbox and the amp sim. Since I'm not using an amp at this step, I'd be on headphones and the mic would be pure acoustic hollow body (i.e. no amp bleed contaminating the acoustic sound). This results in another track recorded simultaneously that would be real handy to mix in with the other tracks in mixdown. I think this acoustic track would be awesome to have available in final mixdown. Just thinking of this makes me want to go buy a hollowbody. To do all this you need a soundcard that can accept and record 4 tracks simultaneously (mine can).

[Paul J Edwards]

Originally Posted by dirkji

The best way to record a guitar is by placing a good microphone before your amp. The microphone should be plugged into a good soundcard. Good microphones start at about $750.

You can get great results with a Sure SM-57 for less than 100 bucks.
You can also use a USB interface like a Line 6 Toneport. It's geared for rock but can still get some nice warm Jazz tones. They are not expensive either. will take a mic if you want to do that.
It comes with recording software for your PC or laptop but you can get Reaper for free on line. Pretty powerful recorder mixer. Loads of features that will take you years to learn it all but easy enough to get up and running in no time.
Or use what you are using now.

[Chito]

Instead of the Shure SM57 which is geared for recording overdriven/distorted guitar sound, I'd suggest a Sennheiser E906. It's great for recording clean guitar and is not too fuzzy with mic placement unlike the Shure SM57.

[Jazzarian]

Originally Posted by Smoke

I use Garagband or Logic and usualy i just plug the guitar (Hohner ES400) in the sound-in from my Apple Mac...
What is the best way to connect the guitar to the computer? Are there any attachments/usb-interfaces/pre-amplifications/... wich give a remarkably improved better result?

I highly recommend finding a good preamp with some kind of speaker emulation. Personally I prefer tube preamps even for archtop.

I've had very good luck with a Mesa Boogie Formula Pre and a TC Electronics G Major processor for reverb. The output goes to a Yamaha i88X A/D Firewire unit to my hardrive.

No microphones! My L5 never sounded better.

[mattymel]

if you like the sound of your amp the best, than you can get a better sound than putting a royer 121 ribbon mic in front of it. pretty much THE electric guitar mic. pricey, but if thats the instrument you play...hard to beat. ive recorded a good deal and never was satisfied until i bought one for myself. 57s are the industry standard, but if its a GOOD studio, they will have a royer and blend the 57 in just a touch for a different texture. but any condenser mic by itself will usually outdo a 57 too IMHO.

from there, a good mic pre into a good audio interface. i have a chandler germanium pre, and then go into my apogee ensemble. sounds great.

[rabbit]

Ratty, cheap ghetto-blaster w/built-in cassette tape
microphone recording. Must be purchased from
Salvation Army or similar thrift store. Vintage
'89 to '93, very important.

Use the best tape you can afford.

Cavernous spaces and micro-mini autos preferred as recording
venues. All of my platinum-sellers produced this way.

[zonedout245]

Depending on what you'll be playing, plugging directly into the computer should work just fine, although an interface might improve your sound and make it easier to record several tracks. You could also mic your amp, or you could use its line out (if applicable) to get more volume in the signal and a better sound. Also, some people mic the guitar itself (only archtops/acoustics) in addition to the amp mic or cable. Recording both signals at the same time gives a more natural sound for solo guitar.

[gpower]

Line 6 PodStudio interfaces are excellent. I have an older TonePort UX-1.

[kamlapati]

I usually describe the mic and amp setup for the songs on my website:

Circle Round the Sun - Standards

How to record an archtop: well there are lots of ways!

[billkath]

Truth is, if you were in a good studio they'd use all these methods at once-micing the amp (both near, with a 57 or RE20, and far (3 foot) with a good condensor or ribbon). You'd use a splitter between guitar and amp which would go to a DI, and also a combination of direct and ambience mic'ing the actual guitar. You only have one chance to capture the "perfect take", so you don't take chances.

[lonnieinskeep]

I have never heard any of these, but they must sound very good, because they are dead ugly

okay maybe the second one is not so bad if the cable was hidden behind a pickguard.

[bass2man]

I use a Focusrite Saffire USB 6 into Cubase...record direct or with a Shure 57...great Mic Pre's (much better than Tascam and Edirol that I have used) and really good drivers ( both Tascam and Edirol had bad drivers)..took about 2 minutes to set up and go..pristine sound for both guitar and bass for $199..

[franco6719]

Good microphones start at about $750.

[docbop]

I just picked up a audio-technia AT2020 USB condenser microphone. Its a USB mic so plugs right into the Mac and everything that uses the Mac's CoreAudio get the mic in its inputs. I've only done a few test so far but sound real nice and only $130.

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by dirkji

The best way to record a guitar is by placing a good microphone before your amp. The microphone should be plugged into a good soundcard. Good microphones start at about $750.

I play so very seldom anything worth listening to; it is therefore all the more important that these rare moments not be lost. Whilst conceding that, for budget systems, it is technically possible to get a beginners mike for under 1k$, I would maintain that a system such as this makes sense, if you value at all your music.

Around 5k$ per set, placing a dozen or so around my Watkins Westminster (being especially careful to avoid phase cancellation problems with multiple mikes...) gives me the true quality needed for these precious occasions....

[billkath]

The thing is-it's all directly related to the quality of your room-your recording environment. There's no point buying a C12, U67 or great m/s or Decca tree array if your room sounds like poop, is noisy or is boxy. By noisy I mean comparable to a good recording room. Or if you don't have a great preamp. Or if you don't have good converters, if you're going digital. Or by having a well maintained tape machine if not. The difference between a U87, for instance, and one of it's many, many cheaper clones available is not how a track sounds recorded through it in isolation, but how it fits in the mix. That's where the differences will ultimately out- how little you need to do to it to get it to sit well. And that's saying you have a monitoring and recording environment (and the ears) to let you hear the differences.

Let's not get carried away by thinking that the cost of the mic is the most important thing. Much more important is the talent of the musician being recorded, and the talent of the engineer. Buy the best you can afford, of course, as usually more expensive mics will last longer, be of better build quality and have a better resale value. But-don't expect a really good expensive mic to sound ten times better than an average mic in the hands of a non-professional in a non-professional recording environment.

[donojazz62220]

Anybody know if I can use my MBox without Protools Software?? I have a new Acer laptop and its limited memory/storage. I normally used my desktop for the ProTools, but I would really like some mobility.

Can I use other software like GarageBand with the MBox? My wife has a Mac Book Pro with Garageband. I'd like to try that.

jd

[billkath]

Sure. It comes with ASIO drivers as well, so any DAW can use it.

[janward]

First - learn how to play and be happy with what you're doing.
Any good direct into your DAW (I use presonus equipment to Digital Performer) will capture the pure sound from your pickup. If you have to have a live sound and can't get away with an emulator (I use a sansamp a lot)...ANY decent mic or mics (and I don't mean 57s) will get your amp...I happen to have always loved the sound of a Sennheiser 421 in a relatively neutral room with a tad of natural return on a small amp (15 watts - into a 10 in speaker?) because the ultra condensers (Royer and above) have just TOO much fidelity and demand a totally unnatural room which you then have to compensate for later. Why not get it right from the beginning?

[silhouette]

I have been using Amplitude Fender - well I actually have Amplitude 3 as well.
I use a good DI box - a Radial J48. It is significantly better than most soundcard HiZ inputs.
I either insert Amplitude Fender into an input track or as a track insert in Cubase.
I use a Deluxe amp or perhaps a Vibroverb with a Vox AC 30 cab and a Deluxe cab. I select a Royer 121 mike for each speaker directed at the cone.
The 121 is significantly less bright and is well suited to a more rounded jazz sound from an archtop.
I set up an EQ post speaker set to tweak the midrange from about 900k to taste. I also set up a UAD LA3A compressor in the rack slot below Amplitude Fender. This alows me to control the squash in the sound.
I have found it impossible at home to get as good a sound micing up an amp. Well at least you cannot tell that it is an amp sim in a mix.

Actually I have lots of different versions of the set-up using different amps and speakers to help the sound sit in the track I am working on.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by Paul J Edwards

You can get great results with a Sure SM-57 for less than 100 bucks.

The Shure SM-57 is a tried and tested classic for miking guitar amps.

If one wants to mike an acoustic archtop, then a small membrane condenser microphone with cardiod pattern may be better as it reproduces the highs clearer. I use a Rode M3, which is priced at the same level as the Sure SM-57, but there are other excellent choices in the same price range. My reason - apart from the reasonable price - for choosing the M3 was the built in switch for cutting the lowest frequencies and thus avoid rumbling noise and the option of using a 9V battery in the mic for power supply instead of Phantom Power (which is not always awailable).

Freddie Green always insisted that the mic should be pointed to the lower scroll of the treble F-hole of his guitar (check out photos of Freddie Green to see it). In the last period of his life he had two strips of red gaffa tape attached to that F-hole scroll on his Gretsch guitar so that the strips pointed towards the scroll. Some say that the tape was there as a visual reminder to stubborn recording technicians who wouldn't listen. Others say - more prosaicly - that it was there to keep a loose and buzzing binding fixed. (You can check it out here: Photos of Guitars Owned by Freddie Green )

[pingu]

Here's my take (I'm a sound eng)

most importantly note ..... If it sounds good it is good

Tech stuff
If you want to record direct ,
the device you plug your guitar into should be med to high input impedance (approx 100Kohms or so)
this is the electric guitar sound direct just like your amp gets

[the device I plug into (a Soundcraft mixer) has an i/p Z of only 10Kohms but sounds fine with my
guitar plugged in so there you go ......see note above]

Your macs 3.5mm jack line input is lowish impedance (approx 20Kohms)
Tech stuff end

But does it sound OK to you ? see note above

If you are concerned about the sound (thin , anaemic , noisey ,or distorted etc etc)
borrow a DI box and small mixer off someone and plug
Guitar to DI to Mixer to Mac input
and record some of that
then compare the 2 recordings

or borrow a USB input device with a proper HiZ (Z = impedance)
'instument' input (not the same as line or mic input
and do the same comparison

you'll soon see if you need to buy something to help you out !
get back to us man cos there's a lot of options
as you see from all the above good answers

what ho !

[franamico]

Hey,
These days digital pocket recorders are becoming really popular. I don't know about you but I like to create high quality recordings without having to carry too much stuff with me at my gigs...

What do you guys think?

[billkath]

Originally Posted by franamico

Hey,
These days digital pocket recorders are becoming really popular. I don't know about you but I like to create high quality recordings without having to carry too much stuff with me at my gigs...

What do you guys think?

They're grand, for what they do. It's all about expectations. Will it be good enough for you and your intended audience? That's really all that matters. Don't fall into the trap of gear snobbery. Also- whatever recording medium you use can be greatly enhanced by mastering-whether you do that yourself with some software or give it to a pro to master for you. You'd be surprised what a set of professional ears in a good room can find and correct for you, at very reasonable rates.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by franamico

Hey,
These days digital pocket recorders are becoming really popular. I don't know about you but I like to create high quality recordings without having to carry too much stuff with me at my gigs...

What do you guys think?

Do you want limitless Sound-on-Sound? Then Korg SR-1 SOS is an option.

Do you want multitrack? Then Boss Micro-BR or Zoom H4N is an option.

If you don't need S-O-S or mutitrack, then they are all usable. Two with a good reputation is Olympus LS-11 and Sony PCM-M10. The latter is very good for the traveller - uses AA batteries (or rechargables), have very long bettery life, are smal and easyly pocketable, the built in mics are not protruding and thus not particualarly vulnerable. It takes standard micro SD cards up to 16GB. Both records directly to WAW and MP3 (some recorders record only to WAV). Direct MP3 recording is useful for space saving when one doesn't need the ultimate sound quality. It also makes it easy to convert your old vinyl records to MP3 for your iPod.

One thing to check is the battery life. For example, the Tascam DR-100 is excellent - apart from one very annoying detail, the short battery life (max 4-6 hours). The Sony PCM-M10 runs up to 45 hours one a set of AAs. The Korg SR-1 is a joke on batteries, it should always be used with a power adapter (that may not be a problem if it is always used at home).

I have a Sony PCM-M10 and use it for about everything - recording myself playing, recording interviews in my office, transferring vinyl LPs to MP3, playing MP3 files with phones or through any radio, car stereo etc., recording sounds for use in slide shows when on holiday. The recorded sound is very clear, even with the built in mics. I also like the way it handles.

For multitrack or home practice, I use an old and now discontinued Boss BR-860 which has some of the same layout and menues as the Boss Micro-BR except the BR-860 is much bigger. I often record a Band-in-a-Box track or music from a CD on it and then record myself on another track (and yet another, and yet another - if I overdub myself).

With the modern small digital recorders, the sound quality is generally excellent -and even better if good external mics put in the right places are used. With these recorders, shortcomings in sound is more often the result of less than favorable room conditions or less than optimal mic placement.