digital studio software

[wizard3739]

Does anyone here have info, experience, or any thoughts about "Reaper" software? I am particularly interested in hardware compatibility in terms of what kind of hardware(mixers) will be needed to interface this software with a pc.

wiz

[fep]

I've been using Cakewalk in the past, started with Home Studio and worked my way all the way up to their complete product Sonar Producer. That was an expensive journey.

I think you can make really high quality recordings with a bunch of different products. The technology has just gotten so good. Sonar vs Reaper vs Protools... It's like a Cannon camera vs. a Nikon, they're both really really good.

And even though I have Sonar Producer on my computer I switched to Reaper.

Reaper is a pro level DAW but at an entry level price and you get free upgrades for quite a while. And it comes with all the effects I need. It it has a great user group and tutorials and user manual. All that is what I like the most about Reaper.

The hardware requirements are the same for all those products. Mainly you need a computer, the power of a newer one would be good (it seems that Reaper doesn't take as much power as some of the others). And you need a way to interface into the sound card, I think a mixer is a good way to go.

I multitrack playing one instrument at a time and layering the tracks together one after the other. Or I load in separate tracks of a BIAB song and add tracks to that. And if I play any drum parts I record that via midi (on a korg padkontrol, or a piano keyboard or elctronic drums). Recording this way, the stereo sound card that already comes with your computer will be good enough.

However, if you are thinking of recording a band live and want them on different tracks, then you'll need a specialized soundcard. I have a Delta 44 soundcard installed in my computer that has 4 inputs and 4 outputs enabling me to record 4 separate tracks at the same time. Most of the time you'd want more tracks than that just for the drums in a live recording situation.

[fep]

One more very important thing...

You should have decent studio monitors to create a good mix. Headphones have their place for doing detail work but are a bad choice for overall mixing.

[wizard3739]

Thank you, Frank! You gave me a lot of very good info and advice for my home studio project. I am not new to the engineering aspects of recording but I am a total newbie in terms of knowing what affordable hardware/software will work best for my needs. I think you hit the nail on the head and gave me a great heads-up on what I will need to kick things off. I did a lot of research on the software and picked Reaper as one of the better choices. After your very helpful advice and info, I am looking at a few eBay 8-channel mixers with a USB interface (Alesis 8 Channel Mixer With Effects and USB Interface) and also some decent (I hope) studio monitors. I already have a great old Sony 100 Watt Stereo amp and an old Bose speaker system but would not be good as a monitor (not at all portable). Thanks again Frank, You have done me a great service with your comments and advice.

best wishes,
Wiz (Howie)

[fep]

Here's a good picture from here:
MultiMix 8 USB 2.0 Integrated USB 2.0 audio interface and mixer



With this mixer, I'd go main out to your amp and monitors, Control room out to your sound card. I'd come out from the computer to the aux return.

I've never interfaced audio from a mixer via a usb. That may be a better way to go(?), in that way you may be able to bypass the soundcard as the digital converter must be in this mixer. Another choice would be to go with the mixer without the usb. Like I said, I don't have an usb output on my mixer so I'm not knowledgeable on this.

Alesis MultiMix 8 USB FX Regular: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

This mixer has only 2 outputs controlled by the pan dial, you can at most record to two separate tracks at a time with this mixer. From the reviews at Musician friend, it doesn't look like you can separate to two tracks if you use the USB. I'm not very exited about those reviews.

For home studio recording the effects on the mixer are not important. You'll be adding effects with Reaper after the performance in the mix down stage. (Although you might want this mixer to double as a live performance mixer or as a backup, in that case it would be nice to have some reverb).

Howard, what are you trying to do?
Are you trying to do multitrack recording, one track at a time?
Are you trying to record a live band with everyone playing at the same time?

[keith]

Depending on how many channels you wish to record and keep separate, you may need to check the specs a bit closer on this, in particular in using the USB. If you go to your sound card then it'll be dependent on your sound card inputs as to how many tracks you can record at a time. As mentioned this comes into play recording many instruments in particular drums. The advantage to multiple tracks is the versatility in post recording manipulation with software. I think the newer USB devices don't have any more latency issues. I have had issues in the past with recording through minijack connections on a standard soundcard and ultimately bought a different card that has a stand alone housing for the inputs which include 1/4 inch jacks and xlr phantom powered jacks. This works well but levels are adjusted via software. They're somewhat more expensive than the mixer shown but may be more versatile depending on what you're looking for. Some of that decision may be dependent on your present card and also the number of separate output tracks the usb will produce on the mixer. My $0.02.Good luck.

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by fep

Here's a good picture from here:
MultiMix 8 USB 2.0 Integrated USB 2.0 audio interface and mixer



With this mixer, I'd go main out to your amp and monitors, Control room out to your sound card. I'd come out from the computer to the aux return.

I've never interfaced audio from a mixer via a usb. That may be a better way to go(?), in that way you may be able to bypass the soundcard as the digital converter must be in this mixer. Another choice would be to go with the mixer without the usb. Like I said, I don't have an usb output on my mixer so I'm not knowledgeable on this.

Alesis MultiMix 8 USB FX Regular: Shop Pro Audio & Other Musical Instruments | Musician's Friend

This mixer has only 2 outputs controlled by the pan dial, you can at most record to two separate tracks at a time with this mixer. From the reviews at Musician friend, it doesn't look like you can separate to two tracks if you use the USB. I'm not very exited about those reviews.

For home studio recording the effects on the mixer are not important. You'll be adding effects with Reaper after the performance in the mix down stage. (Although you might want this mixer to double as a live performance mixer or as a backup, in that case it would be nice to have some reverb).

Howard, what are you trying to do?
Are you trying to do multitrack recording, one track at a time?
Are you trying to record a live band with everyone playing at the same time?

Hi again Frank. My goal is to be able to do both multitrack for the whole band and multitrack recording one track at a time. Most of the time it would be just my wife & I doing some of our originals for copywrite needs or some of the old standards on CD's for family and friends. Occasionally, our little band runs out of money to pay for studio time and a home studio might be a good and sensible solution for that situation. Also, I would like some ability for live recording of some of our gigs to help us to learn songs and improve our performance. As you might remember, I really enjoy the standards thread and the home studio would probably greatly improve the noise problem I occasionally have. Your experience and comments have really helped me to understand what I need to accomplish what I described above.
Thank you again,

wiz (Howie)

[fep]

Howard

Why do you want to record the whole band live?

1) You want to record rehearsals to review and evaluate performances or the composition, or the arrangement?

or

2) You want to create a multitrack recording of the whole band performance to mix down into a finished mix?

or

3) Some other objective, you'll have to fill me in on what it is...

This is an important question. Reaper can easily do whatever you want, but the hardware requirements are different between #1 and #2.

And another question, does your drummer have a high quality electronic drum set?

Something like roland v-drums? That would completely change things as it won't take up any mics or tracks on your mixer or soundcard:

YouTube Video

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by fep

Howard

Why do you want to record the whole band live?

1) You want to record rehearsals to review and evaluate performances or the composition, or the arrangement?

or

2) You want to create a multitrack recording of the whole band performance to mix down into a finished mix?

or

3) Some other objective, you'll have to fill me in on what it is...

This is an important question. Reaper can easily do whatever you want, but the hardware requirements are different between #1 and #2.

And another question, does your drummer have a high quality electronic drum set?

Something like roland v-drums? That would completely change things as it won't take up any mics or tracks on your mixer or soundcard:

Last week we recorded our first song (original) at the studio we are currently using. We havn't got the master yet but I did listen to it and was totally blown away by the quailty of the recording. This recording was done one track at a time and then mixed down by our recording engineer.
Before we started recording the single tracks for the mix, we recorded 5 versions of the song with the full band to give the engineer the best live cut to use as a reference of what we wanted to sound like on the master. That approach got the job done but the quaility of the master seemed much better than any of the 5 full band cuts. I guess that what I need is primarily one track at a time to be mixed down to a master.
BTW, our drummer has both electronic drums and a full Pearl Drum set (his preferred sound for live music).

wiz (Howie)

[Stevebol]

Reaper is popular with rockers. Also, it may have lower CPU than other more complex DAWs. When you record many tracks at the same time you can run into problems depending on the computer used and possibly other things like operating system. Make sure your operating system is compatible with whatever gear you get.

I would decide how many channels you need first and then select an audio-interface. Something like this maybe;

PreSonus FireStudio Project Interface at zZounds

The pre-amps in Presonus gear is good enough. If you need to pre-mix drums due to track limitation a mixer like the one above will do. Alesis, Behringer, Mackie.

I haven't done this kind of recording but a great resource would be here. Let the tweakmeister guide you;

Tweak's Guide to the Home and Project Studio

DAWS seem to be called sequencers on the tweak guide and forums.

[Stevebol]

This is something to consider though I'm not up on the details. It may serve as a mixer and audio-interface all in one;

Mackie Onyx 1620i 16-Channel Mixer at zZounds

I would consider choosing the DAW around the hardware you need instead of the opposite.

Edit,
This does serve as mixer+audio interface. I'd find out about track limitations, operating system, CPU, etc... Definitely wave of the future here.

Here's another. It's USB and comes with Sonar LE;
http://www.zzounds.com/item--AAHZED12FX

[fender]

I've done lots of search for audio interfaces and tried several DAWs.
My decision is Roland Quad-Capture. (in next few days I'll ge it)
QUAD-CAPTURE :: Products :: Roland

Before I was looking on E-MU 0404 USB too.

For Mac Motu is great interface.

As for DAWs, for now my favourite is Nuendo, but I start to use Reaper more and more. And it's cheap!

[fep]

Originally Posted by Stevebol

Reaper is popular with rockers. Also, it may have lower CPU than other more complex DAWs.

Steve, maybe you can elaborate on that.

I've used Protools, Sonar Produser and Reaper. They are all more similar than they are different. They all seem equally complex to me. They all are used in Pro studios by pro engineers and pro producers.

I haven't wanted to do anything that any of those products haven't been able to do except I didn't like working with midi on protools and I haven't used midi in Reaper yet.

They certainly all do a ton of things that I haven't tried. I have no reason to doubt your statement. I just think it would be good information to know what Reaper can't do that the others can.

[fep]

Wizard,

My understanding is you want to make good quality recordings at home. You're interested in the end product not necessarily the process.

In a recording studio,
- they have treated rooms,
- they are able isolate the instruments so there isn't much bleed between tracks,
- they have probably dozens of mics or more,
- they have huge boards with maybe 16 busses,
- they have a computer interface where they can record 16 separate tracks at a time
- they have very powerful computers
- they are able to provide each musician with a separate headphone mix (I don't know how they do this, my guess with is a separate 16 bus board
- (and I'm sure I forgetting a bunch of stuff)

It would be an incredible big project to duplicate all that at your home and is certainly not where you want to start.

But you can get real high quality recordings at home without having all of that, you just have to go about it differently.

Basically you want to multitrack, recording one or two parts at a time and go direct when possible to take the untreated room problems out of the equation. This is how I do it:

Electric Guitar
- 1) go thru a modeler direct to the board (my preferred way) or
- 2) close mic an amp with an sm57 or similar mic. If you choose #2 don't try to record any other instruments in that room while recording the guitar

Bass
- 1) Go direct to the board using a direct box, or
- 2) go thru a modeler

Keyboard
- 1) Record via midi or
- 2) go direct to the board from the keyboards audio outputs

Vocals
- Close mic (3 to 6 inches)

That is all easy and works great... and now for the trouble...

The drums
- Avoid the problems and get a great result by using a electronic drum set via midi and good drum samples. This will enable you to have each part of the drum kit on a separate track for mixing, and they'll be perfectly clean sounding and easy to edit.
- If you want to record an acoustic drum set most likely your results won't be as good because of room noises and other problems. Keep it simple and use only four mics (the recording studio might have used eight or more). Mics on the snare, the bass drum and two condenser mics for the overheads all going to separate tracks. This will require a 4 input soundcard and if you're using a mixer a four bus mixer.

---------------------------

So all you need is stereo outputs to do the above and you could start by using the soundcard already in your computer to see how well it works for you. If you do decide to go with acoustic drums then you'll want a 4 bus mixer (often referred to as 8 x 4 or 12 x 4 etc) and a sound card or interface that can handle 4 inputs.

I think you should purchase the minimum required gear and only expand when there is a specific and compelling need. All you need is an interface (like a mixer) and the Reaper software. The gear question I'd have is do I want a stereo mixer of a 4 bus mixer.

You'll also need some cables and a direct box if none of you have one, and optionally some amp modelers like a line 6 pod or something similar. And of course a dynamic mic and mic stand which you already have.

Note, for live rehearsal recordings or performance reference recordings, I'd just use a handheld digital recorder.

[fep]

Wiz,

If you choose to go the mixer route (which is what I do and know):

-look for balanced inputs and balanced outputs
-look for phantom power on at least two of the channels

I was looking around and found this:

TAPCO MIXER MODEL 120 NEW on eBay!

Check out the Computer set-up diagram on page 7

http://www.mackie.com/products/disco...xseries_om.pdf

I took a recording class at my local community college. Other than the main work station which had a huge Mackie board, they used small Behringer Mixers for the other 5 recording stations and they worked great. All the stations were computer based recording stations. So I would also be looking into Behringer as I've had a positive experience with them.

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by fep

Wizard,

My understanding is you want to make good quality recordings at home. You're interested in the end product not necessarily the process.

In a recording studio,
- they have treated rooms,
- they are able isolate the instruments so there isn't much bleed between tracks,
- they have probably dozens of mics or more,
- they have huge boards with maybe 16 busses,
- they have a computer interface where they can record 16 separate tracks at a time
- they have very powerful computers
- they are able to provide each musician with a separate headphone mix (I don't know how they do this, my guess with is a separate 16 bus board
- (and I'm sure I forgetting a bunch of stuff)

It would be an incredible big project to duplicate all that at your home and is certainly not where you want to start.

But you can get real high quality recordings at home without having all of that, you just have to go about it differently.

Basically you want to multitrack, recording one or two parts at a time and go direct when possible to take the untreated room problems out of the equation. This is how I do it:

Electric Guitar
- 1) go thru a modeler direct to the board (my preferred way) or
- 2) close mic an amp with an sm57 or similar mic. If you choose #2 don't try to record any other instruments in that room while recording the guitar

Bass
- 1) Go direct to the board using a direct box, or
- 2) go thru a modeler

Keyboard
- 1) Record via midi or
- 2) go direct to the board from the keyboards audio outputs

Vocals
- Close mic (3 to 6 inches)

That is all easy and works great... and now for the trouble...

The drums
- Avoid the problems and get a great result by using a electronic drum set via midi and good drum samples. This will enable you to have each part of the drum kit on a separate track for mixing, and they'll be perfectly clean sounding and easy to edit.
- If you want to record an acoustic drum set most likely your results won't be as good because of room noises and other problems. Keep it simple and use only four mics (the recording studio might have used eight or more). Mics on the snare, the bass drum and two condenser mics for the overheads all going to separate tracks. This will require a 4 input soundcard and if you're using a mixer a four bus mixer.

---------------------------

So all you need is stereo outputs to do the above and you could start by using the soundcard already in your computer to see how well it works for you. If you do decide to go with acoustic drums then you'll want a 4 bus mixer (often referred to as 8 x 4 or 12 x 4 etc) and a sound card or interface that can handle 4 inputs.

I think you should purchase the minimum required gear and only expand when there is a specific and compelling need. All you need is an interface (like a mixer) and the Reaper software. The gear question I'd have is do I want a stereo mixer of a 4 bus mixer.

You'll also need some cables and a direct box if none of you have one, and optionally some amp modelers like a line 6 pod or something similar. And of course a dynamic mic and mic stand which you already have.

Note, for live rehearsal recordings or performance reference recordings, I'd just use a handheld digital recorder.

Frank, I think you have "hit the nail on the head" in terms of what I need and where I should start with my home studio project.

1) I have a decent portable recorder for rehearsal evaluation.
2) I have mics, amps, etc...
3) I have good computers, desktop & laptop
4) I already have Reaper and a couple of freebie software programs.
5) I can probably (thanks to your lucid and helpful advice) get by with a decent 8-channel mixer and some serious recording/learning/experimenting.

BTW, The block diagrms you referred me to in your last post was a good eye-opener for me. The Tapco/ Mackie user Manual is a good read for me.

thanks again for all your help and advice, I will let you know where I end up with this fun project.

[kid deluxe]

Reaper is great. I worked with Cubase for many year and recently switched
to reaper.
If you wanna use the software, safe time and get this:
Reaper 4 Explained by Kenny Gioia
great tutorial....

[Stevebol]

Originally Posted by fep

Steve, maybe you can elaborate on that.

I've used Protools, Sonar Produser and Reaper. They are all more similar than they are different. They all seem equally complex to me. They all are used in Pro studios by pro engineers and pro producers.

I haven't wanted to do anything that any of those products haven't been able to do except I didn't like working with midi on protools and I haven't used midi in Reaper yet.

They certainly all do a ton of things that I haven't tried. I have no reason to doubt your statement. I just think it would be good information to know what Reaper can't do that the others can.

Hi fep. I haven't kept up with info about DAWS in recent years. I've been noodling around with FL studio for years doing electronic stuff. I can say it is not an audio recording friendly program but does other amazing things. As far as Reaper, I've heard nothing but good things about it. It may have been popular with rockers years ago because of it's "live" and "multi-tracking" ease of use. Not really sure why. It seems like a good choice for the OP and I guess it doesn't really matter if you build around your DAW or your hardware.
As you pointed out DAWS are equally complex. I got the impression that the OP wanted to record many tracks at the same time and also might want to multi-track. That's why I pointed to these combination mixer/audio interfaces which is relatively new technology. If I'm not mistaken you can get maybe 8 tracks separately into a computer at the same time. This would allow great flexability when editing afterwards. If this is true I'm surprized that they don't make this info more available in the product specs. Mixer/audio interface combos using firewire or USB were new just a few short years ago.
I should stick to just what I know, lol. I can vouche for the plain Mackie mixers. They have decent pre's and the user manual is excellent. Sounds like the OP just wants a regular mixer.
You summed it up pretty much in your next post.

[keith]

" So all you need is stereo outputs to do the above and you could start by using the soundcard already in your computer to see how well it works for you. If you do decide to go with acoustic drums then you'll want a 4 bus mixer (often referred to as 8 x 4 or 12 x 4 etc) and a sound card or interface that can handle 4 inputs. "


I think this is the key issue here. Despite the number of inputs that are present on your mixer you need to determine how many separate tracks that mixer can send, in particular using the usb port. Don't assume that you'll get 8 out via usb if you have 8 in. Once you get comfortable with these ( mixer or PC interface ) your limitations may be from I/O port number or possibly latency issues with the USB.( especially with more tracks and higher sampling and bit rates ) Because of this you might consider trying to optimize your I/O ports number. If you wish to mix different tracks from different instruments at different points in time, the more you can isolate each stream of data the more versatility you'll have and hence each instrument needs separate input and output access.

"However, if you are thinking of recording a band live and want them on different tracks, then you'll need a specialized soundcard. I have a Delta 44 soundcard installed in my computer that has 4 inputs and 4 outputs enabling me to record 4 separate tracks at the same time. Most of the time you'd want more tracks than that just for the drums in a live recording situation."

Depending on how you manage the tracks, with a combo they can be used up quickly. The drums will suck up ports quickly if you want anything more than a single overhead mic. Add vocals, guitar, bass and you've hit the wall on a 4x4 card. The more ports, the more $$ on these cards. If you go with a new card be sure you have the slot for it in your PC as it may be a different access than your present sound card. I'd also suggest if you go with a card that the cable interface be separate akin to the 2 stevebol displayed.

PreSonus FireStudio Project Interface at zZounds

M-AUDIO - Fast Track Ultra - High-speed 8 x 8 USB 2.0 Interface with MX Core DSP Technology

It sounds as if your sound card may be the limiting step with either approach so if you go with the mixer you'll either need a beefier mixer with more distinct outputs via usb or just get a new soundcard that gives you adequate port numbers for your needs. If you do get a new card consider the specific type of interface ( PCI, firewire etc ) with regards to latency in particular with high port usage as they will differ.

If you get a new card they will likely throw in one or many DAWS ( the software package ) I didn't find great differences between the 2 I received ( Sonar LE and Cubase ) but I honestly didn't go through all of the different features between the 2. They both have more effects than I'd consider using and there is a learning curve with all of these DAW's. It sounds like you've had experience with this.

I'm not sure I added too much here but make the distinction of number of separate outputs in whatever you purchase.

[mattymel]

my .02...if you are talking about just doing small jazz group demo type deals (for getting some gigs etc...) my advice is put all you money into getting a good interface and 2 good mics. something with good pres that gets plenty of headroom and that arent too noisy akin to an Apogee Duet. my philosophy is this...every blue note record i love and most early columbia stuff...two tracks...yeah, they had a mixer, but they also had somebody working it the whole time they were recording.

personally for jazz (and everything else too) i ALWAYS prefer the sound of bleed to isolated drum toms, bass drum, snare, guitar, bass...to be frank, when you are just starting off, the more tracks you have to EQ, mix, etc, the worse its going to sound. best to keep it SIMPLE.

you could do two good room mics in a good sounding room for a quartet and have it sound awesome. the best way to do it is to roll em, play the head, stop...listen to what youve got. moving one mic 6 inches can make all the difference in the world. or adjust how far people are to the mic. plus people are going to feel more comfortable playing that way. motown style!

if you want to get more serious, look into an Apogee Ensemble, which has 8 great pres. though the duet is basically the same quality with just 2. good luck!

[Stevebol]

^^^
That's not a bad idea. After looking into these combo mixer/audio-interface firewire/USB units it seems all the companies are determined to bury info about the limitations or potential problems that might occur.

Behringer claims you can record 16 separate tracks on one of their mixers and dump these separate tracks into a DAW via USB stick. Really? The video ends before they actually prove it can be done.
It might be best to stay away from this stuff for now and just stick to getting it right in the mix as fep suggested or rely on the right soundcard/audio-interface thing.

[mattymel]

believe me...if you are JUST getting into recording, the LAST thing you want to do is to have to worry about how to EQ a bass drum on a not so great sounding mixing board. you'll spend days and end up with a styrofoam cup sound before you even get to the snare...not to disrespect any gear, but your better off without a $200 mixing board if you can get around it.

the fastest/easiest way to get a good to great group digital recording sound is this:

good arrangement!!!--->good sounding instruments--->2 room mics (ribbons if ya got em)--->good preamp with "clean" headroom (+70db)---
--->interface--->recording program

the more things that come into play multiplies the chances that you end up messing up the mix. as i said, unless you know how to mix (i still dont AT ALL and ive had my stuff for years), you definitely dont want to get into EQing multiple tracks of drums, one guitar, bass, one of whatever else...if what you are hearing in the room sounds good, get out some nice ribbon mics (highly recommend a pair of Cascade Fatheads...like $500/pr) and put them up in the middle of where you are playing. the only thing that can get weird is reflections off walls can make certain frequencies BUMP, but thats all part of the FUN process. i still have yet to heed the advice every single pro says about first spending a couple Gs putting sound reflection on walls....not very sexy. so for now just find your best room for recording.

experiment. ribbon mics are usually the closest to what you are actually hearing. most LDC mics these days have a big spike in upper mids/treble that can cause havoc on a purely digital signal. im lucky enough to own a Royer 121 ribbon, which is pretty great on guitar amps or rooms. actually if you can find one of those, BE SELFISH and put it on the guitar amp. likely be the first time your amp ever sounded good. doesnt hurt to ask around to borrow stuff. guys that are REAL into recording are usually pretty nice about lending out their stuff if they know you. at least i am...

try and keep people roughly the same distance from the mics so you dont get any noticeable phasing stuff. doesnt bother me that much, but it wont sound as good if its real out of wack.

one of the most important lessons i learned was that EQ should only be used for 2 things: 1) to fix a problem, or 2) to change the way something sounds AS AN EFFECT. to FIX something, always start by taking out frequencies, not adding them. to CHANGE something, add a little bit. (but if you are taking my advice and doing 2 mics in a room, im gonna guess you pretty much only want to be taking frequencies OUT to correct any room weirdness...there is always one little frequency). other than that, you should be trying to record EVERYTHING the way you want it to sound IN A MIX as you are recording it. whatever you do, DONT PUT EQ ON EVERYTHING.

also, VERY IMPORTANT...dont try and make everything (by themselves) sound HUGE and waaaaarm. you will end up with a big boomy MESS. some of the best sounding guitar tracks i have ever gotten sounded bad by themselves. but in a mix, they sounded perfect. its a collective effort. jazz guitar guys almost always EQ their amps too dark for recording (playing with a group too!!!). its a different thing if you are doing a solo guitar gig. you can be a lot darker in that format because you are covering the whole spectrum...google "motown guitar EQ" and you'll find some tips...

anyways...good luck!

[markf]

Originally Posted by fep

One more very important thing...

You should have decent studio monitors to create a good mix. Headphones have their place for doing detail work but are a bad choice for overall mixing.

yes. It's really discouraging to record something, and play it back through lousy speakers.

[fep]

Originally Posted by mattymel

believe me...if you are JUST getting into recording, the LAST thing you want to do is to have to worry about how to EQ a bass drum on a not so great sounding mixing board. you'll spend days and end up with a styrofoam cup sound before you even get to the snare...not to disrespect any gear, but your better off without a $200 mixing board if you can get around it.

The mixing board gives you preamps and the ability to send different channels to different tracks on your software. It also gives you zero latency recording if you use it correctly.

But I would never use my mixing board for eq for home recording. The eq in the Reaper software is so much better. They're parametric eqs and you can set as many bands as you want and you have all these different options on each band.

I eq every track, the first thing I do is get rid of the subsonics and the highs with high pass and low pass eqs and just using my ears. I get rid of as much as I can without changing the sound of the track as a first step. It's pretty standard operating procedure for sound engineers and real easy to do. Then I start working the eq for tone shaping, notching, etc.

Bass drums, don't you try to identify the frequency of the three important sounds of a bass drum? You can adjust those frequencies when competing for the same sonic space as the bass guitar thereby increasing the clarity of both instruments. That's just one example.

I think using an eq is one of the most important skills to develop when mixing. And it's fun. You'll never get good at it unless you use it. Just trust your ears.

[fep]

Hi Howard,

I hope you're still keeping an eye on this thread.

One more reason why I like to use a mixer in my studio. I have my amp/speaker modeler, my keyboards, my walkman cd player, my roland vdrums, a mic, and my computer plugged into my mixer. So I can play my CD's, my guitars, my bass, my drums, and my keyboard and sing thru the mic without turning on my computer. Just flip a couple switches and I'm playing either thru headphones or my studio monitors.

For me, if it's not already set up and ready to go, it's much less likely I'll play that instrument.

I also wanted to point out this Reaper tutorial page:

Tutorials For Reaper | Quick Start Guide | Video Walkthrough | Audio Production | Product Sales - Part 2

Start at the bottom with “Basic Overview”

You can browse thru them all, but here are a few I like after the Basic Overview:
Asio4all
Take System Basics
FX menus and simple sends

[taxman]

Check out the site: recording.org

It is comprehensive in this area.

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by fep

Hi Howard,

I hope you're still keeping an eye on this thread.

One more reason why I like to use a mixer in my studio. I have my amp/speaker modeler, my keyboards, my walkman cd player, my roland vdrums, a mic, and my computer plugged into my mixer. So I can play my CD's, my guitars, my bass, my drums, and my keyboard and sing thru the mic without turning on my computer. Just flip a couple switches and I'm playing either thru headphones or my studio monitors.

For me, if it's not already set up and ready to go, it's much less likely I'll play that instrument.

I also wanted to point out this Reaper tutorial page:

Tutorials For Reaper | Quick Start Guide | Video Walkthrough | Audio Production | Product Sales - Part 2

Start at the bottom with “Basic Overview”

You can browse thru them all, but here are a few I like after the Basic Overview:
Asio4all
Take System Basics
FX menus and simple sends

Hiya Frank. I am still here, thanks very much for the tutorial! I haven't made a decision yet, but I am leaning toward a simpler setup. There is a lot to learn here and lots of good advice. I think I will take a bit more time to study and learn before I jump in. BTW, I am finding out you can teach an old dog new tricks. I will keep in touch and let you know where I end up with this project.

thanks again,
wiz (Howie)

[fep]

I wanted to show you one way to do your workflow.

When you multi-track you often want to start with a 'scratch' track. This is a track that get's the ball rolling and is listen too as the next track is recorded, or the next couple, or several tracks are recorded. So that 1st track needs to be well done and be in time and hopefully have a good groove.

It might be a rhythm guitar track or a piano track for instance. Recorded while using a metronome.

The word scratch is used as that track is most often not used in the final mix.

Here's what I've been doing; it's so easy and effective it feels like I'm cheating.

1st write up the tune in BIAB. Then when you 'Render to Wave' in BIAB select one wave file per track and remember the file path were you are saving them too:



Then open Reaper. Select the 'View' drop down menu and select 'Media Explorer' (it's the ninth item on the list on my version). At the bottom of the screen it should look like the picture below. Navigate to the Biab files and drag them up to the track area and you'll create a track. Do this for each of the BIAB files.



Next I double click in each tracks title box and rename the tracks. Then I close Media explorer by clicking the 'x'.



Now you'll see the tracks and the mixer:




You can do the following in any order you see fit:
1. Add a track and record the vocal
2. Add a track, and mute the guitar track and record your guitar
3. Add a track, and mute the bass track and record the bass
4. Add the track, and mute the drum track and record your drummer.
5. You might want to rerecord the vocal track with the your whole band now playing and then even redo some of the other tracks.

And now there are no BIAB tracks playing and you have your band playing all the parts. Also note, that you might want to only bring over one band member at a time during the recording process, give him/her a glass of wine to relax, and let them do a bunch a takes and spend a couple hours with their part.

I marked where you can double click to add a track, and where the transport controls are and where the mute button is.

That's a start.

[wizard3739]

Hey Frank, I decided to compromise and this is where I ended up. The unit won't do everything I wanted but the price was very right and it will do until I am ready for something more sophisticated. It came without software and the Reaper should be ok with it.

wiz


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