Advice on starting to record solo

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #1 04-01-2011, 01:41 PM

I've been recording myself with an M-Audio FastTrack Pro and Audacity software. This works fine for practicing, but now I'd like to have recordings I can post for others to listen to, and this setup doesn't cut it

I play a D'Angelico Archtop with a Kent Armstrong humbucking pickup.

What hardware and software would you recommend? I'd like to stay under $150 if that's reasonable.

Maybe a good solution is just to get a good mike and plug it into the FastTrack??

Audacity is a pain.

Thanks, folks.

mr. beaumont · #2 04-01-2011, 01:56 PM

I'm still using a stand alone hard disk recorder (a Fostex MR-8) which will save my recordings as a .wav...I then import those to my laptop and use a program that's about 8 years old--cakewalk home studio, to edit (nothing major, usually just trimming off silence at the beginning and end of the track and boosting the overall volume)

I'm not so savvy about direct to computer recording, so I'd like to see what folks have to suggest as well...I know there's an easier way than I do things--unfortunately, I feel like I'm finally starting to get halfway decent at the method I do use!

thenoviceguitarist · #3 04-01-2011, 02:11 PM

I'm a Pro Tools guys myself, but I know that's not in the price range you indicated. IMHO I think the PT software and interface are overpriced, but I continue to use them because I spent so much time learning my away around the software.

I have some friends who rave about this recording software called Reaper. It's free as a demo, and should operate with most interfaces. My friends have only used the demo format and came up with very high quality recordings. You might want to look into this.

As for the mic, I think you'll be able to come up with great recordings using just a single dynamic mic like an SM-57. I think those are around $100.

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #4 04-01-2011, 03:46 PM

Thanks to both of you. I'll collect all replies and later let the forum know what I decided.

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #5 04-01-2011, 03:56 PM

Further question: I want to record myself playing against a backing track such as an Aebersold play-along? I can do this with the equipment I have today, using headphones, and not being able to monitor the guitar while I'm playing -- i.e. I have to hear it acoustically.

Does this make sense?

kenbennett · #6 04-01-2011, 04:04 PM

Mics are good. The SM57 would be fine, especially if you are using an amp.

For recording acoustically, I think condenser mics sound better, in general. Those Chinese made condenser mics are a step up from plugging directly into the interface. MXL is a decent brand. Something like this at minimum.

Getting a good sound is all about experimentation with levels, mic placement, and so on. Then a little bit of processing--nothing major.

If you are using an amp, get the sound you like, then try different placements for the mic until it captures your sound faithfully. Up close to the speaker a little off center usually works well.

Although you can run into certain problems, two mics can work well. The easiest way is to put one up close, say three inches away, and the other far away, at least three feet. That will make it almost impossible to get phase problems between the two mics. You can get a big open sound by panning one to the right and the other to the left, but first check with both panned to the center to make sure it sounds good that way.

The goal is to record a signal that is as loud as possible, compared to the noise in your system, without distorting at any point in the signal path.

Do you know enough about audio engineering to achieve this? It's pretty simple if you know the basics.

By the way, the software you use won't make much difference in the sound of the raw recording. At the basic level they all do the same thing.

At minimum, record 16 bits at 44.1KHz sample rate, 24 bits is better. And higher sample rates are better, but 48KHz probably won't make a noticeable difference. 24 bits at 96KHz should be real good.

Encode your mp3 at a minimum of 192kbps, higher is better, 256 is fine, 320 is about as good as the original wav file. Use the LAME mp3 encoder, one of the best, with Audacity. Some of the better software packages don't include mp3 encoders. That's the main thing I use Audacity for.

kenbennett · #7 04-01-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VersatileJazzGuitarist

Further question: I want to record myself playing against a backing track such as an Aebersold play-along? I can do this with the equipment I have today, using headphones, and not being able to monitor the guitar while I'm playing -- i.e. I have to hear it acoustically.

Does this make sense?

No it doesn't. You should be able to hear both the backing track and your guitar in the headphones.

gingerjazz · #8 04-02-2011, 04:59 PM

Hi versatile,i love my boss br 600 i do exactly what your saying.I load on an abersold backing and then record myself playing over it.Thing i like is i can do it all without a computer.I can also use either just headphones or my small moniter speakers.Sorry if you were looking for more computer based solutions but i havent got round to that yet.

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #9 04-02-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gingerjazz

Hi versatile,i love my boss br 600 i do exactly what your saying.I load on an abersold backing and then record myself playing over it.Thing i like is i can do it all without a computer.I can also use either just headphones or my small moniter speakers.Sorry if you were looking for more computer based solutions but i havent got round to that yet.

Thanks, Ginger. Unfortunately, that product is discontinued, but it got me searching for similar multitrack recorders. I like the concept a lot.

My son, who does quite a bit of recording, advised against miking the amp and recommended going direct. He says you really have to crank the volume up on the amp to get a good sound through the mike.

Any feedback (pun intended) on that?

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #10 04-02-2011, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenbennett

No it doesn't. You should be able to hear both the backing track and your guitar in the headphones.

The M-Audio box adds too much delay. Yeah, I can hear it, but it's about 1/4 second behind!

gingerjazz · #11 04-02-2011, 05:25 PM

Hi versatile yes i had forgotten my model is out of date(a bit like me)but there are newer versions available.I just find this unit so usefull all recordings can be transfered to a computer in wav like mr b was saying.But it is also great for just quickly laying down a chord sequence to jam over.In fact when im feeling really lazy i put my boss looping pedal in front of the br and leave it to record a long looping sequence(How lazy am i)but i find these stand alone recorders very versatile.

mr. beaumont · #12 04-02-2011, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VersatileJazzGuitarist

Thanks, Ginger. Unfortunately, that product is discontinued, but it got me searching for similar multitrack recorders. I like the concept a lot.

My son, who does quite a bit of recording, advised against miking the amp and recommended going direct. He says you really have to crank the volume up on the amp to get a good sound through the mike.

Any feedback (pun intended) on that?

Maybe if you're using a tube amp and are trying to get rock sounds, but Ialways use a mic and I feel like I get good results.

bass2man · #13 04-02-2011, 07:35 PM

Hi VJG:

I have been recording for 15 years..Yes, a mike is needed if you want to play blues/rock or need to get a sound from your amp recorded...For jazz, I usually go direct as I am looking for a clean sound...your son is correct..you really need to crank the amp to get a good signal recorded.

Your M -Audio is fine for what you want to do...what you need is get a decent DAW..Sonar, Fl Studio...I use Cubase mayself...

The reason you are hearing a delay is that you are hearing your guitar through the input buss....what you need to do is enable the "direct monitoring" in the DAW..I dont use Audacity so I dont know if it has that...certainly CUbase, SOnar/CAkwalk or any new DAW would. Direct Monitoring will bypass the input buss of your track and send the guitar signal directly through to the output buss...you may still hear a little delay ( anything over 10 ms will be noticeable..so you need to adjust the buffer size in your M-audio..the manual should tell you how to do that..it is a tradeoff between low latency i.e. delay and how much your computer can handle.

Cubase 5 essentials and Cakewalk Home studio are both about $150...I would call Sweetwater...real nice folks that can help you decide what would work best with your setup

Jeff Gu · #14 04-12-2011, 10:22 PM

The preamps in the M-Audio are pretty bad. You might want to seriously consider a good preamp or channel strip to plug into it (line level input)...

PreSonus Studio Channel

I use one of those with my laptop for mobile recording. I use a digital mixer, now, in the home studio. Since the mixer handles all the monitoring, there is no latency.

I'm not sure why/how anyone would have trouble with levels mic'ing an amplifier. I much prefer the sound, and always mic the amp... although I sometimes mix it with a direct signal (which I process within the DAW). I use an SM57-type instrument mic (dynamic) like the Audix I-5 or ElectroVoice Cobalt 4 or even the Shure SM57. For clean tones, I also use the previously mentioned trick of setting a condenser mic back 3 to 6 feet from the speaker for a second track. I actually use an MXL V63M for this... $70 with shock mount. Works better than most of my more expensive mics for this application. Keep in mind that you will need good room acoustics and silence for that trick to work. I have many recordings with my dogs barking in the background.

As others have said, the DAW isn't the problem, as Audacity can produce results as good as any other software can. How user-friendly the software is will vary a lot, and is very subjective. What's brain-wretching misery for some is fun for others, and what seems simple to one person may seem like Chinese algebra to someone else. There are YouTube demo videos of almost every DAW out there, free or otherwise.

I tried recording with less than $200 worth of gear/software and never got results I could live with until I spent more money. I guess it depends on what level of quality you are after. I hope this helps a little.

VersatileJazzGuitarist · #15 04-13-2011, 09:12 AM

Well, I ended up buying a Tascam DR-05 digital recorder and a Mackie 402-VLZ3 mixer, all on the advice of my son who does some home recording for his podcast, and who also recorded a demo of me and a vocalist on the same equipment.

I copy the files from the recorder to Audacity and post-process there.

I'm going direct through the mixer. I've been playing around with this for a few days and so far I like what I hear. I'll post something in Showcase pretty soon.

Thanks for all the advice, folks.

Richard