Playing through a computer - the basics?

[Brian B.]

Hello,

I'm planning on buying an archtop this month (Deo volente!) on a very limited budget. I had been thinking that I'd have to put aside $150-200 for a small, inexpensive amplifier (this will only be living room playing!). It just occurred to me though, that I could put that money toward the guitar instead, and play through my computer!

I assume that if I just plug into my computer's sound card in-line (with a 1/4->1/8 converter), I'll get a sound. Is that so? Also, is there any free or inexpensive software that will allow me to get a relative *nice* (i.e., not dry or flat)? I know Audacity is recording software, but perhaps there is some good plugin that will give me a bit of reverb (and I could just play with the recording on pause, or something like that)? Anything else maybe?

I realize that I may be missing something obvious, but the last time I picked up a guitar there were (practically speaking) no such thing as home computers!

Thanks in advance for any leads!

Brian

[Brian B.]

PS: I have a Dell Inspiron 570 w/ Windows 7 (4GB RAM).

[billkath]

Well-a guitar pickup puts out much less than line level. So-you'll need some sort of preamplifier to get it up to line level.
Also-a guitar pickup needs to "see" a very high impedence input- about 1 mega Ohm. Most line inputs are around 10KOhm, and in truth, that's just not enough. You'd get away with it, but you'd likely get a none-to-good tone from your pickups.

So-what do I recommend? You need something that will take your guitar input and raise it to the right "volume" and output at the right impedence for a line level device.
Something simple like the M-Audio Audio Buddy can be had for very little money and would be perfect for you.

[Brian B.]

Great. This is very helpful (exactly what I was looking for). One last question, what do you think of the Lexicon Alpha Desktop Recording Studio (which I just found by Googling)? I primarily won't be using this for recording, but it does have audio mixing software (including reverb) bundled. I realize that I can probably download this, but for someone like me, it would be easier to have it all together. Would this give me what I'm looking for?

Amazon.com: Lexicon Alpha Desktop Recording Studio: Musical Instruments

[EinarG]

If I don't have my amplifier with me, I usually play my guitar through guitarrig with a great result. I also get a good result just by running through my line 6 m13 straight into my soundcard. When I add some reverb and an EQ I usually get away with a tone suitable for practising or even some recording

[billkath]

Yeah, Brian-that'd be just fine. These days, there's very little between any of them at this pricepoint.

[Brian B.]

Thanks to everyone for their help. Last couple of questions:

1. Is there any chance that there would be a delay (between playing on the instrument and audio playback on the computer) with any of these devices? Of course, this would make it practically unusable for my purposes.

2. Would any of the EQ or reverb features be only for recording purposes, and not for real-time playback (again making it it unusable for what I'm looking for ... using my computer for practicing/playing in my living room instead of a small guitar amplifier).

Sorry for the many questions ... I'd just hate to spend the $50-100 dollars just to find out it's not suitable for what I'm looking for.

Many thanks for the help!

Brian

[markerhodes]

I rarely plug my guitar into an amp. I don't play hard and sometimes wish for a *bit* more volume, but it's plenty for practicing and playing tunes for my own amusement. (I *have* an amp, a Polytone MiniBrute II, but I rarely use it.)

In short, get as good a guitar as you can and worry about an amp later. Remember, it doesn't near as long to learn how to work an amp as it does a guitar!

[billkath]

Originally Posted by Brian B.

Thanks to everyone for their help. Last couple of questions:

1. Is there any chance that there would be a delay (between playing on the instrument and audio playback on the computer) with any of these devices? Of course, this would make it practically unusable for my purposes.

Yes-it's called latency. That Lexicon device you mentioned has zero latency monitoring, so that will not be a problem.

2. Would any of the EQ or reverb features be only for recording purposes, and not for real-time playback (again making it it unusable for what I'm looking for ... using my computer for practicing/playing in my living room instead of a small guitar amplifier).

Well-on most interfaces the zero latency option doesn't incude the effects. However, if the drivers are good you should be able to get the latency down to an acceptable level of around 3ms with effects and just one input. Some interfaces have built in effects on the interface to bypass that problem.

Sorry for the many questions ... I'd just hate to spend the $50-100 dollars just to find out it's not suitable for what I'm looking for.

You really should ask your local music shop can you rent an interface of the type you want for a weekend-try before you buy. Or borrow a friend's interface.[/quote]

Many thanks for the help!

Brian

[Brian B.]

Originally Posted by markerhodes

I rarely plug my guitar into an amp. I don't play hard and sometimes wish for a *bit* more volume, but it's plenty for practicing and playing tunes for my own amusement. (I *have* an amp, a Polytone MiniBrute II, but I rarely use it.)

In short, get as good a guitar as you can and worry about an amp later. Remember, it doesn't near as long to learn how to work an amp as it does a guitar!

May I ask what use use when playing through your computer? - Thanks!

[Brian B.]

Originally Posted by billkath

Well-on most interfaces the zero latency option doesn't incude the effects. However, if the drivers are good you should be able to get the latency down to an acceptable level of around 3ms with effects and just one input. Some interfaces have built in effects on the interface to bypass that problem.

This is at the same time very helpful (I'm getting closer to understanding the issues), but also leaving me with more questions. When you say "driver" you mean the interface that connect the guitar to the software in question? I suppose I still have the same basic question: what would an acceptable interface be, and what (if any) software would I need to be able to toy with the EQ and/or add a bit of reverb. Is there anything in the under $100 price range that has built in effects?

Okay ... this really was the last. I'll stop posting, even in the very likely event that I don't understand something!

Thanks for all of the help!

Brian


You really should ask your local music shop can you rent an interface of the type you want for a weekend-try before you buy. Or borrow a friend's interface.[/quote][/quote]

[billkath]

Originally Posted by Brian B.

This is at the same time very helpful (I'm getting closer to understanding the issues), but also leaving me with more questions. When you say "driver" you mean the interface that connect the guitar to the software in question?

Nope-the driver is the software that lets the computer talk to the interface correctly. Lot's of the generic, built-in sound cards don't really have their own written drivers-they rely on third-party, generic ones. Thus, computer and interface can't work at optimal. In laymans terms, you can't get the really low latency that you need to hear effects etc in realtime. However-that Lexicon has good drivers, and you will be able to.

I suppose I still have the same basic question: what would an acceptable interface be, and what (if any) software would I need to be able to toy with the EQ and/or add a bit of reverb. Is there anything in the under $100 price range that has built in effects?

If you are asking me what I'd do in your position? I'd just buy a POD from line6. Answer to what you want. Check out the line6 website and do a bit of research-there are lots of things there specifically designed for what you need.

Okay ... this really was the last. I'll stop posting, even in the very likely event that I don't understand something!

Thanks for all of the help!

Brian

[max chill]

If you get the cheapest multiFX guitar pedal you can find - digitech for
$50, for example, it will have amp modeling and effects. Since it is a piece of hardware that goes into the computer, it will have no latency.

[AZanshin]

All you need is a 1/4 to 3.5mm plugged into the line in port (Microphone) of your laptop. On my laptop set up I use guitar rig or garage band to simulate amps.

[EinarG]

Here's my results when running thorugh my Line 6 M13 into my soundcard with a simple gutiar rig jazz amp simulation. I'm quite happy with the tone, and I use it for recording all the time.

YouTube Video

[billkath]

Originally Posted by AZanshin

All you need is a 1/4 to 3.5mm plugged into the line in port (Microphone) of your laptop. On my laptop set up I use guitar rig or garage band to simulate amps.

Not really a great idea, but it'll depend on your guitar pickups. See-most guitar pickups need to "see" an input impedance of about 1 Mohm. most line ins are about 10Kohm, and mic inputs even less-about 3kOhm. You'll lose a lot of tone. If you use piezo pickups, and have a preamp bult in, then it's not a problem, but normal pickups you'd want at least to use a DI box.

[wizard3739]

Very nice tone Einar!

wiz

[Brian B.]

Originally Posted by EinarG

Here's my results when running thorugh my Line 6 M13 into my soundcard with a simple gutiar rig jazz amp simulation. I'm quite happy with the tone, and I use it for recording all the time.

Wow, that sounds really lovely! The M13 is (a lot) is a good bit above my budget, though. Do you have any idea if I can get an equivalent (or thereabouts) sound from a Line 6 POD?

Many thanks!

[billkath]

Sure, Brian. Remember, though- a lot of tone is in your fingers and your technique.

[EinarG]

Hey, thanks! You could go for the slightly cheaper Line 6 m9, same effects in a smaller package. I love the M13, it has cured my GAS for a least a while. I also love the fact that I can change any parameter of any effect with the expression pedal.

Guitarrig+soundcard is a great investment if you live in an apartment and like to do some home recording.

[elinfoot]

I have a line6 tone port gx which uses a program called podfarm which I think most line 6 interfaces (that plug into the computer) It uses amp and fx pedal models and it has low latency

Line 6 Toneport GX USB Recording Interface: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments

[Brian B.]

Hello friends,

I'm apologize for the cross posting, but a while back a posted several queries (about inexpensive archtops, USB Audio Interfaces, & books of chord melody arrangements). I ended up with a Peerless Monarch (from Lou at Guitar 'n Jazz who was just great to me!) a Line 6 POD GX, and the beautiful Barry Galbraith Solo Guitar books. I couldn't be happier with each of them. Thank you very much for your advice and help!

Here's a (very rough!) sample on Youtube:

YouTube - Last Night When We Were Young (arr. Barry Galbraith)

Brian

[billkath]

Fantastic!! Well done.

[strumcat]

There's a great little set of tutorials about setting up a home studio at

Tweak's Guide to the Home and Project Studio

Explains a lot of things in detail and doesn't assume that you already know a lot. Goes through most of what you need to know for playing and recording via computer.

[markf]

Originally Posted by billkath

You need something that will take your guitar input and raise it to the right "volume" and output at the right impedence for a line level device.
Something simple like the M-Audio Audio Buddy can be had for very little money and would be perfect for you.

I got one of these, it is outstanding, I also use it live, and it's great for that as well:

art tubemp:


Applied Research & Technology: Audio Products

The Tube MP is the world’s most popular external tube microphone preamp. Whether you’re working with a digital, computer or analog recording system, the Tube MP’s TEC award nominated design will allow you to obtain professional recording studio results at a fraction of the cost of comparable equipment. The hybrid design of the Tube MP allows it to add warmth and fatness to a signal while maintaining exceptionally low-noise and high quality. While its primary application is to be used with a microphone, the Tube MP is an exceptional direct box - impedance matching, amplifying and improving the sound of any instrument plugged into it.

The usage of external mic/line preamps has become increasingly popular over the past several years. The Tube MP offers superior performance and sound quality to the “on-board” preamps found in today’s low-cost mixers and multi-trackers. It’s sound has been consistently favored over other products costing upwards to ten-times its price.

and it cost around fifty dollars. fantastic device.

[markf]

you are welcome.

[strumcat]

My pleasure, ingreen.