Okay Jazz Guys/Gals, Here's a trivial type question:

rbdeli · #1 02-26-2010, 05:42 PM

If you were trying to teach a rock or heavy metal guitarist about jazz and getting the feel for it on the instrument, who is the one guy you would have him/her listen to?

My son, former heavy-metal kid, who just a few months ago took on a new jazz guitar teacher had him listen to this guy. The first thing his teacher told him, 'you need to learn to play on the back of the beat' and he gave him his Grant Green, "Feeling the Spirit" CD.

I can't believe that I forgot to put him on my site. He should have been one of the first ones.

How could we forget about Grant Green?
Grant Green MP3 Selection

PS: Same thing applies to us trumpet players. For learning the feel and back beat thing I would go with Freddie Hubbard or Miles, though neither one of them are my favorite players.

mr. beaumont · #2 02-26-2010, 06:03 PM

grant green's a ridiculously good choice...i dug a lot of jazz as early as high school, but i never though i could lay it until i heard grant.

then i started transcribing him and realized how good he was!

i'll add tenor hank mobley to the list-- lot of stuff that's not too hard to transcribe but friggin' genius in it's approach...

of course, the best thing about these cats is they realize that it's ALL blues.

Marcos Zarevich · #3 02-27-2010, 04:14 AM

Pat Martino - El hombre

wizard3739 · #4 02-27-2010, 10:45 AM

I would select Grant Green. He did it all with a relaxed sense for all of his recordings and would be ear candy for any serious jazz guitar student.

wiz

theo · #5 02-27-2010, 11:44 AM

+1 for grant!

pierre richard · #6 02-28-2010, 10:07 PM

kenny burrell....

time on the instrument man...pierre

JimBobWay · #7 02-28-2010, 10:17 PM

...I have to say +1 for Kenny Burrell. When I heard him I started to understand that less is much much more (no offense to Grant!). But I also recommend John McLaughlin, who has played a lot of different music and has a penchant for hemi-demi-semiquaverosity, which of course gets the shredders' attention. But don't try too hard, everyone chooses their own path. Jazz is mostly a feeling, some will be drawn to it, others not.

#8 03-01-2010, 06:13 AM

I might suggest Alex Skolnick's trio discs. He is a former metal player and does jazz versions of classic rock tunes. They actually sound very good and Alex plays great. Might help bridge the gap and show him the beauty of sophisticated harmony over melodies he already knows.

FatJeff · #9 03-01-2010, 09:57 AM

Am I the only one here who just can't listen to Grant Green? I find his playing predictable and too licks-oriented. I here him play the same damn lick in almost every one of his dongs. And I don't like his articulation - he tends to pluck every note instead of slurring, which sounds unnatural to me.

I have the same complaint about GB...too many notes, not enough emphasis on phrasing.

I liked Grant early on, before I knew better. And there is still some of his material that I think is gold (e.g. most of Sunday Morning), but the other few CDs I have of him I don't care for at all.

As far as I'm concerned, the Big Man of jazz guitar is still (and probably always will be) Wes. He's in a class by himself when it comes to hard-swingin' jazz.

derek · #10 03-01-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffstocksmusic

I might suggest Alex Skolnick's trio discs. He is a former metal player and does jazz versions of classic rock tunes. They actually sound very good and Alex plays great. Might help bridge the gap and show him the beauty of sophisticated harmony over melodies he already knows.

Though I believe GG is the most accessible jazz player, particularly if you are coming from a rock/blues background. Alex is an excellent suggestion. Most shredders/rockers know of him, even if they didn't spend time listening to Testament.

His first couple of discs are of his trio taking metal anthems and running them thru the jazzinator, so they are familar to metalheads, which is always a plus.

mr. beaumont · #11 03-01-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatJeff

Am I the only one here who just can't listen to Grant Green? .

yes.

wizard3739 · #12 03-01-2010, 09:57 PM

yes!

wiz

#13 03-02-2010, 02:39 PM

Well I can't personally imagine anyone not being into Grant Green.Simplistic compared to some maybe,but then perhaps better for that.
Trying to get a heavy metal kid into jazz ? well maybe work off of something like 'My Funny Valentine' from 'Live at Keystones' Jerry Garcia/Merle Saunders its only 17 minutes(may bore him out of the idea...haha)..... is it rock ? is it jazz ? its not even in the original time signature i.e. 3/4 not 4/4 but it goes places and then back again.Actually talking of Jerry G try him on 'The Other One' from about 1968/69 or Dark Star... its leaning towards jazz in a rock improv type way.Then play All Blues by Pat Martino off of 'Live at Yoshi's',then play All Blues off of 'Kinda Blue' to show a contrast to it without the guitar connection.....just an idea.

mr. beaumont · #14 03-02-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StraightNoChaser

Trying to get a heavy metal kid into jazz ? .

that's what mahavishnu is for!

fumblefingers · #15 03-28-2010, 11:23 AM

i agree with mr b. the best fusion players are another way to get a metalhead into jazz. metalheads are enamored with the speed, volume, and raw aggression of electric guitar music and want to be blown out of their chairs. starting them out with a laid back guy (we're talking about from a listening angle here, not playing) may not get them, well, jazzed about things. also, introduce them to Coltrane and Kind of Blue. bad ass playing and not too many changes. if they can't relate to that they may not "convert" to jazz, at least not while young.

chrisg · #16 03-29-2010, 06:50 PM

I agree with mr b and fumlefingers and would suggest to start with heavy fusion stuff ie: Planet X, Greg howe, Uncle Moes Space Ranch, Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth. They will like it because it sounds familiar, it is flashy and the guitarists can "shred" even better and faster than what they are used to. But to learn how to play it they have to learn how to play over changes and look at the influences of those players such as Coltrane. Just giving them straight jazz straight away wont work.
On the other hand why do you need to convert him? you can expose him to more styles of music and his musical taste will mature by its self and he will gravitate towards what HE likes.

fivebells · #17 03-30-2010, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbdeli

If you were trying to teach a rock or heavy metal guitarist about jazz and getting the feel for it on the instrument, who is the one guy you would have him/her listen to?

Frank Zappa, from the period when Steve Vai was in the band. Those names will appeal to the metal fan. If the musical ideas start to take hold then the numerous Zappa band alumni provide leads to the jazz world.

mangotango · #18 03-31-2010, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisg

I agree with mr b and fumlefingers and would suggest to start with heavy fusion stuff ie: Planet X, Greg howe, Uncle Moes Space Ranch, Frank Gambale, Allan Holdsworth. They will like it because it sounds familiar, it is flashy and the guitarists can "shred" even better and faster than what they are used to. But to learn how to play it they have to learn how to play over changes and look at the influences of those players such as Coltrane. Just giving them straight jazz straight away wont work.
On the other hand why do you need to convert him? you can expose him to more styles of music and his musical taste will mature by its self and he will gravitate towards what HE likes.

Allan Holdsworth is a good call; you can show a direct line to Kurt Rosenwinkel, who cites Holdsworth as a major influence. From there it's a short step via Rosenwinkel playing standards to any number of modern guitarists, e.g. Kreisberg, Monder, etc; and via Scofield & Metheny into Miles' electric period, then the whole wide world of Jazz music opens up.