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Rob,
I know that we deviated from Jazz Guitarists on the thread , but it was still of interest
IMO , we all know a little more now on our favourite subject. I was fortunate to know
Louis Stewart who was a great friend of Cedric West ,my Tutor . Louis was in a
different league to most of us, what a player. I also have enjoyed this discussion which
has highlighted some phenomenal musicians.
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01-02-2018 05:14 AM
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Good to know, Alan. You should write your memoirs too!
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Many years ago I went with a friend to see Jim Mullen playing in a pub in Croydon. At the bar we were buttonholed by some old drunk who informed us in no uncertain terms that Britain's greatest ever jazz guitarist was in fact... Hank Marvin.
We made our escape as soon as possible...
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More memories... Another time we went with writer/journalist Stan Britt to see Terry Smith at a pub in West Wickham. Terry knew Stan so in the interval he came over to our table and we all had a chat with him. I remember telling Terry I played a 175 and he said he could never get on with 175s as they were too big (he was quite a small guy - I think he played a semi-hollow like a 335).
Unfortunately all this attracted the attention of another drunk, who seemed to be under the impression that we were all bigwigs in the music biz just because Terry spoke to us. So when the gig finished, he sat down (uninvited) and started telling us about his wonderful band, their new record etc. - I think he was expecting us to get him a record deal or something!
When we politely tried to tell him that we weren't able to help, he started getting very nasty, shouting and refusing to let us leave. Which was a bit silly as there were about 5 of us! By this time, the pub had emptied. I was just deciding whether it was better to hit the bastard with a bottle or a chair, when the landlord (a big chap!) finally came to his senses and threw the idiot out.
You do get some nice people in pubs...
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Thanks for starting the thread Rob, and to others above for sharing their memories. Beyond Ike Isaacs and Ivor Mairants, I've been largely ignorant of UK jazz guitarists pre-1960s (already a fan of the Ray Russell, Amancio D'Silva generation).
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I thought we'd see you pop up on this thread, David, being a member of the London Jazz Guitar Society. I wonder when that society was formed?
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How about Derek Bailey? And wasn't Julian Bream an occasional jazz player in his early days?
John
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It was formed in 2008 by my friend David Morris. I've took over the reins a couple of years ago. I'm actually due to send my monthly email out to the group this evening. I'll mention some of the names from the original post and ask for any memories/anecdotes from readers - if I get any responses I'll copy them here.
Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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I already mentioned Derek Bailey earlier (I think! I certainly meant to). As for Bream, I love the man, but find it hard to label him either a jazz guitar pioneer or a jazz guitar pioneer. Originally Posted by John A.
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Originally Posted by David B
Thanks, David. By the way, my daughter now has a flat in Islington, so I have somewhere to stay when visiting London. Do let me know if something special is on the horizon.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Great story, Graham!
Terry played an ES 330 (the model Grant Green used) all through his jazz days in the 50s and 60s, and kept playing it through his time with IF.
On the last album I bought of his, Tenderly, on Actone Records, he's shown playing an ES 175, and seems to be using his thumb now, instead of the fast picking he was well-known for. Sounds very Wes influenced, his fave player.
I saw him with IF twice, once at the Fillmore East (on a bill with Black Sabbath- that was the last time I ever listened to BS), and once at the Gaslight in NYC, where Terry burned the place down!
There are some good TS stories and quotes in the John McLaughlin bio I mentioned in my last post, Bathed In Lightning.
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[QUOTE=grahambop;832276]More memories... Another time we went with writer/journalist Stan Britt to see Terry Smith at a pub in West Wickham. Terry knew Stan so in the interval he came over to our table and we all had a chat with him. I remember telling Terry I played a 175 and he said he could never get on with 175s as they were too big (he was quite a small guy - I think he played a semi-hollow like a 335).
If I remember correctly Terry used to play a Gibson Es330. ironically later pics show
him playing an Es175
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Yes I’ve got that CD too, you’re right, he’s playing a 175 in the photo. We also saw Terry another time at the same pub playing with Pete King on sax, that was a night to remember! They played several Wes Montgomery tunes and Terry was burning, doing the octaves and everything (and of course Pete blew the roof off)! Happy days... Originally Posted by sgcim
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In his book, The Great Jazz Guitarists, Ivor Mairants mentions his choice for the top eleven British jazz guitarists:
Dave Goldberg
Pete Chilver
Ike Isaacs
Esmond Selwyn
Frank Evans
John McLaughlin
Martin Taylor
Louis Stewart
Eric Clapton
Allan Holdsworth
Thats only ten...I guess he must have included himself in the total!
Not all are British, of course, but that's his selection.
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wot, no Hank Marvin?! Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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Without in any way being critical of the famous Slowhand, I'm surprised to see Mairants mentioning Eric Clapton in a list of top jazz guitarists. Since the thread at least initially was about pioneers, I can see Clapton being in a list of UK pioneers of urban blues playing and maybe even topping that list but as a jazz player? I've heard a fair amount of EC over the years but nothing that I'd describe as jazz. Have I missed something that would explain his inclusion? Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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I agree. That said, I've a few times come across a reference to Cream as a jazz-influenced band, which always made me scratch my head. I think old Ivor was under the spell of The Clap, and, having transcribed a couple of solos, wanted to include them somewhere.
As for Hank...I've taught Apache to a couple of students, and they think he is God. It's all good.
I have no problem with Mairants's other choices, although I've not heard Pete Chilver. Maybe he's on youtube...where I'm heading now.
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No, nothing there for Pete Chilver.
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Nothing for Pete Chilver but rather a lot of this guy, whose name has come up a few times on the thread.....
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Oh well.
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[QUOTE=Rob MacKillop;832622]I agree. That said, I've a few times come across a reference to Cream as a jazz-influenced band, which always made me scratch my head. I think old Ivor was under the spell of The Clap, and, having transcribed a couple of solos, wanted to include them somewhere.
Rob,
I think that came about as Ginger Baker was regarded
as a Jazz Percussionist ( mentored by Phil Seaman) and
Jack said that Eric was unaware he was fronting a Jazz
rhythm section , or words to that effect.
I saw them in their early days, very popular with some
jazzers. Also Jack Bruce was with the Graham Bond
Organidation , a Jazz oriented group.
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Thanks, Alan. It makes more sense now.
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I've read in a couple of places that Bream partook of the London Jazz scene early in his career, tried to get good at it, and decided to stick with classical. You might have listed Bailey, and I might have missed it. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
John
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[QUOTE=silverfoxx;832641]
Both Baker and Bruce were working jazz/studio/session players before they were blues/rock players. Bruce started as a classical cellist, switched to upright and then electric bass [this is an interesting interview that covers that ]Nothing found for 2892 Jack Bruce ]. Baker has said in several interviews that he thinks Clapton could have been a great jazz player, but clearly that never came to be. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
John
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Lots of info. about Pete Chilver here:
Peter Chilver | Gypsy Jazz UK
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