Mick Goodrick article in Jazz Times

[TH]

Can't find an online version but a really nice article about Mick Goodrick in November's Jazz Times.

David

[guido5]

Now on-line
Profile of Guitarist Mick Goodrick - The Six-String Theorist - JazzTimes

[kris]

Now on-line
Profile of Guitarist Mick Goodrick - The Six-String Theorist - JazzTimes

thanks for the link.
Kris

[Cunamara]

I read too many news sites, I guess. I saw that sideways headline in the original post as "six string terrorist."

[kris]

Mick Goodric talked about Berklee College of Music...I think John Scofield and Mike Stern been there for only three years.
not sure about Pat Metheny and John Abercrombie how long they study at Berklee.
Best
Kris

[TH]

Mick Goodric talked about Berklee College of Music...I think John Scofield and Mike Stern been there for only three years.
not sure about Pat Metheny and John Abercrombie how long they study at Berklee.
Best
Kris

There was a time that Berklee was the prime "trade school" training ground for musicians, especially jazz musicians. The enrollment numbers were relatively small in comparison and Gary Burton's working band was the hands-on platform by which many musicians wound up playing professionally before their program was complete at four years. Sco worked with Gary and worked with Gerry Mullligan before his four year mark, Stern was working with Blood Sweat and Tears, Pat was with Gary and with his own groups and Mick and John Abercrombie were there at the same time, with the world open to them before their time was up.

It's a different place now, with a 4 year program filled with requirements and courses that "round out" a degree program but somehow don't take into account the demands of practice and time required for a lot of hands-on time. But schools change with students' needs and the administrative philosophies of the current regimes.

Mick has seen it all. And taught most of those who've gone on to make their mark. Include Nir Felder, Emily Remler, Wolfgang Muthspiel, Lage, Bryan Baker, Julian Lage and others in there too.

David

[Boston Joe]

It's a different place now, with a 4 year program filled with requirements and courses that "round out" a degree program but somehow don't take into account the demands of practice and time required for a lot of hands-on time. But schools change with students' needs and the administrative philosophies of the current regimes.

I think some of that, too, is driven by accreditation requirements. The accrediting bodies are more concerned with the breadth of the program than by whether or not students are going to have enough practice time.

[TH]

I think some of that, too, is driven by accreditation requirements. The accrediting bodies are more concerned with the breadth of the program than by whether or not students are going to have enough practice time.

That's very true. Unfortunate that there was never enough thought to the detrimental effects of not restructuring curriculum considerations in this process. It's not the place for this discussion on this thread but taking an already substantial curriculum that had its origins in small classrooms, then adding a full load of "requirement skills" courses and larger classroom sizes (despite studies that have shown this to reduce effectiveness) in order to create a broader admissions base, begs the question: How does poorly planned accreditation "gridding" impact the effectiveness of the process of learning an art like music?

Any way, the school is in transition. Mick is witness to and a part of many changes and we'll see. It is a small aside that at some point a few years ago, he'd considered having a class that would be modeled on a regular Master Class format. Students would meet regularly, and play things that they'd prepared for critique. Then Mick would give a detailed set of observations, suggestions and anecdotal situations that could shed further insight on the performance. All members of the class would be witness to and a part of this weekly process.
But he never got the approval for this idea, so it never flew.
I think I got the most from him from all the things he offered after hours. A regular thing he called "study hall" wherein students could just show up at his office after hours, play with each other through a hub that allowed quiet duos or play with others, drawing and playing and discussion of any creative ideas. This was all after hours and just word of mouth.
I recently asked him if he'd like to start that up again. He seemed tired of the whole business and said no. Maybe there's just so long you can get ideas shot down by administration. Who knows.

David

[Boston Joe]

That's very true. Unfortunate that there was never enough thought to the detrimental effects of not restructuring curriculum considerations in this process. It's not the place for this discussion on this thread but taking an already substantial curriculum that had its origins in small classrooms, then adding a full load of "requirement skills" courses and larger classroom sizes (despite studies that have shown this to reduce effectiveness) in order to create a broader admissions base, begs the question: How does poorly planned accreditation "gridding" impact the effectiveness of the process of learning an art like music?

OK, don't mean to thread hijack. Just to observe that there are a lot of considerations in higher ed administration. Fund raising, admissions, retention, faculty, regulatory compliance, etc, ad nauseum. The focus *should be* on the students, but in reality, that can be a rather small consideration. And it gets smaller the closer the institution in question gets to full-on "college" or "university" status.

I recently asked him if he'd like to start that up again. He seemed tired of the whole business and said no. Maybe there's just so long you can get ideas shot down by administration. Who knows.

Well there's that. And also, I know that as I've gotten older, my tolerance for the efforts involved in organizing things outside of my job and my personal interests has dropped off.

[skittles]

The focus *should be* on the students, but in reality, that can be a rather small consideration. And it gets smaller the closer the institution in question gets to full-on "college" or "university" status.

This says it all. I was a student at Berklee in the 90s and experienced it as a "college" with all the concomitant curricular necessities thereof. I worked hard because I wanted to work hard; I never felt that I didn't have enough time to invest in the areas necessary for my future career, though more time was always welcome. I now teach at a large public university. And I pine for my students to have the flexibility I experienced as an undergraduate at Berklee. The scale of the enterprise does little to accommodate a pedagogy-centric culture. There are so many layers of administration populated by individuals whose fields are far-removed from music. And there's the accreditation factors. And then there's the political component because our state legislature has control over some aspects of budgeting and general education curriculum. In the end, students are well-served when and because there are individuals committed to serving them well. But that's a function of personal commitments and not necessarily institutional ones. The business of higher ed keeps taking us farther away from the purported and historical purpose of higher ed. One becomes weary and wary, even without 40+ years of service.

[Endorphins]

"Goodrick is in the process of retiring from Berklee, and he will be all but impossible to replace."

under recorded.

[TH]

"Goodrick is in the process of retiring from Berklee, and he will be all but impossible to replace."

under recorded.

I'd recorded practically every performance he's done in public since the early 80's and it's hard to describe just how great he is. He really doesn't care to make his output accessible. When he was with RAM records, he did some great CDs. There was even one, completely recorded, mixed and mastered. The only two copies on a DAT he kept on his shelf and one Raimondo who owned RAM possessed. Well RAM folded, and there sits this DAT of his last CD on his shelf.
One day it's not there. "Where's that DAT?" I asked him. "I threw it out to make more room on my shelf."
WHAT?!!!
"It's been years and I haven't listened to it, that wasn't about to change. I can use the space."

And that's Mick and his under recorded legacy.
Just after John Abercrombie died, I got a chance to convert some old cassette recordings they did as a duo to digital. He was happy to have that. When I happen to be playing it and someone walks into the shop, they always stop in shock and have to know "Who IS this? And where do I get it?"

He's defined his own music world all right. Abercrombie had always been his musical soul mate.
You know they once had a working band? Abercrombie, Mick, Steve Swallow and Adam Nussbaum or Gary Chaffee on drums. Beyond "almost fun"!

David

[David B]

You know they once had a working band? Abercrombie, Mick, Steve Swallow and Adam Nussbaum or Gary Chaffee on drums. Beyond "almost fun"!

David

Ten years and a couple of computers ago, I had a copy of that lineup's album (with Gary Chaffee), 'Noisy Old Men'. Not easy to find now but copies are out there.

[kris]

is there any Mike Goodrick recording on hollow-body guitar?

[paulkogut]

Kris,


Mick used a semi-hollow 335 style Epiphone (Sheraton?) early in his career, before moving to headless Hohners and Kleins. I think it's on his record In Pas(s)ing and various Gary Burton sides and bootlegs.

PK

[TH]

Casa Valdez Studios: Jimmy Mosher- A True Voice

From Jimmy Mosher's group.

David

[Toddep]

I'd recorded practically every performance he's done in public since the early 80's and it's hard to describe just how great he is. He really doesn't care to make his output accessible. When he was with RAM records, he did some great CDs. There was even one, completely recorded, mixed and mastered. The only two copies on a DAT he kept on his shelf and one Raimondo who owned RAM possessed. Well RAM folded, and there sits this DAT of his last CD on his shelf.
One day it's not there. "Where's that DAT?" I asked him. "I threw it out to make more room on my shelf."
WHAT?!!!
"It's been years and I haven't listened to it, that wasn't about to change. I can use the space."

And that's Mick and his under recorded legacy.
Just after John Abercrombie died, I got a chance to convert some old cassette recordings they did as a duo to digital. He was happy to have that. When I happen to be playing it and someone walks into the shop, they always stop in shock and have to know "Who IS this? And where do I get it?"

He's defined his own music world all right. Abercrombie had always been his musical soul mate.
You know they once had a working band? Abercrombie, Mick, Steve Swallow and Adam Nussbaum or Gary Chaffee on drums. Beyond "almost fun"!

David

I have everything I could find commercially and have some bootlegs of him as a sideman. I still can’t get enough.



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[Toddep]

This girl I dated years ago had a Laslo Gardonay CD , which Mick is on. I was taken aback by this find. He plays some beautiful lyrical solos on that.


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[TH]

This girl I dated years ago had a Laslo Gardonay CD , which Mick is on. I was taken aback by this find. He plays some beautiful lyrical solos on that.


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He's been sideman on Greg Hopkins CDs, Jerry Bergonzi CDs, Miles Donohue CD, Wolfgang Muthspiel and Leibman CDs. Ayden Essen too. But all of them hard to find
David

[Toddep]

He's been sideman on Greg Hopkins CDs, Jerry Bergonzi CDs, Miles Donohue CD, Wolfgang Muthspiel and Leibman CDs. Ayden Essen too. But all of them hard to find
David

The Hopkins, and Essen stuff is new to me ... will have to look into that, thanks! I love is work on Sunscreams!


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[Endorphins]

I'd recorded practically every performance he's done in public since the early 80's and it's hard to describe just how great he is.

share

[Cunamara]

I guess I have to out myself as some sort of knuckle dragging musical Neanderthal here.

Because of this thread I have listened to a fair bunch of things on YouTube with Mick and... I don't get it. I listened to some duet stuff with Muthspiel and I get his playing, but not Mick's. I listened to things by Mick with Dave Liebman, Pat Metheny, his trio (in Rome), Michael Brecker, etc. There's a duet on "Out of Nowhere" with Joe Diorio which I found myself getting into a bit, but they often seemed to be stepping on each other rhythmically.

With Mick's playing I find my attention has completely wandered to something else within in a minute or so. There must be somewhere to start to ease into and get my ears to hear it. And maybe that will help me get a number of other modern players that I don't get. Any recommendations?

[TH]

I guess I have to out myself as some sort of knuckle dragging musical Neanderthal here.

Because of this thread I have listened to a fair bunch of things on YouTube with Mick and... I don't get it. I listened to some duet stuff with Muthspiel and I get his playing, but not Mick's. I listened to things by Mick with Dave Liebman, Pat Metheny, his trio (in Rome), Michael Brecker, etc. There's a duet on "Out of Nowhere" with Joe Diorio which I found myself getting into a bit, but they often seemed to be stepping on each other rhythmically.

With Mick's playing I find my attention has completely wandered to something else within in a minute or so. There must be somewhere to start to ease into and get my ears to hear it. And maybe that will help me get a number of other modern players that I don't get. Any recommendations?

You like what you like. It's not the music that he makes. It's what makes the world so diverse. Some people like olives. I don't. It doesn't make me a Neanderthal.
You like things you like. Enjoy them. Life is good.

David

[David B]

I've always thought that this video has a most beautiful, melodic and concise solo from Goodrick.

[garytone]

Thanks to all the contributors to this post. I really enjoyed reading and listening to this and a bunch of other stuff it lead me to.

My loved one and I got to hear Pat Metheny at Columbia, MO in '81, and we often refer to that as the most exciting performance we've heard. I had no idea then about the Berkeley connection, but later stumbled on a book by Mick Goodrich - The Advancing Guitarist. I weaved in and out of that book for a few years, and am happy to report that my son latched onto it, and it's in New York with him now. Funny how these little connections proceed.