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Originally Posted by TruthHertz
As far as people putting down entire schools of music, I not only suspect their motives and ignorance, but the old Native American expression about 'walk a mile in my moccasins' comes to mind. If you can't do or get it, yet still put it down---shame on you...
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09-15-2017 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
I couldn't listen to free jazz much beyond a track or two because I don't care for the feeling of being lost. To me it's like listening to someone speaking a foreign tongue; at first the simple sounds themselves might hold my interest, but eventually my non-comprehension frustrates me.
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I like this quote,
"you have to be able to play way inside in order to play way outside"
Last edited by jazzimprov; 09-15-2017 at 10:34 PM.
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The wondrous places a 'free' imagination can take you
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When I listen to guitarists playing free jazz, I end up comparing them with the Grateful Dead who did hundreds of hours of free playing; sometimes it seems like jazz is catching up to where the Dead were 40 years ago.
Here's a famous-in-the-Deadhead-world jam: Dark Star -> Wharf Rat -> Dark Star also known as "Beautiful Jam." 2/18/71. There are sections of free playing, sections of tunes, dynamics, shifts in groove... intuitive improvisational music, as Weir called it.
And something interesting - "Just The Jams" from the famous May 1977 shows. Some of these are jams within tunes, some are between tunes (e.g., the segue from "Scarlet Begonias" to "Fire On The Mountain"), some are the famous/infamous "Space/Drums/Space" segments. Some are free, some are vamps. Stripped out of the songs, although you'll recognize them if you're familiar with the repertoire.
The danger with playing free is that it can so easily suck, but it can also be so beautiful and astonishing. Takes guts to go out there and try, knowing that it is without a net.Last edited by Cunamara; 09-15-2017 at 09:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
People who say "I just don't like the sound of it; it's too different" are akin to those who say "I don't think French theatre is valid because I can't stand the sound of that language."
Yes, it's different. Yes I see a lot of free form improvisational music. And yes, the spectrum of music among the really good music is profoundly masterful. But I could never walk out, or let my concentration lapse during a good performance. They're telling a story, cooperatively, and I'm included. It's really exciting and even if I've recorded it, an essential element is missing when the actual space is not part of the equation.
Live music has been a part of jazz performance and the genre itself, since the beginning. The convenience of recordings has worked well for the parameters of song form jazz, but not so well suited for free improvisation. That's been my experience. And it may be that attending a good performance could be a mind changing experience.
David
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Such a great thread, i 've never heard of many of these players. Made my weekend!
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That thread is interesting indeed. I also have heard players I had never before, some of them clearly still express musicality. (in my book).
With some player however, particularly one that doesn't belong in the same post as Frisell, a question is still popping in my mind, can you be out of the pocket when there is not even one...
Of course putting a value on art expression is tricky and what is art and what is not? I would say if there is an artistic intention behind an action then it becomes art.
A toddler vomiting on a canvas by accident is not expressing art while an artist purposely doing so, does...
I find free jazz interesting and to some extent contemporary stuff because rules are getting twisted or "voluntarily" ignored.
I personally still need some structure and would even put reactive noodling in front of expression of randomness.Last edited by vinlander; 09-16-2017 at 08:29 AM. Reason: better choice of wording
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Originally Posted by neatomic
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Originally Posted by neatomic
Was that Mtume on percussion?
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Jon Damian is also kind of a gem player and teacher, lots of left side ideas on playing and composing, has a great book on the subject too.
Jon Damian
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Originally Posted by fasstrack
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Originally Posted by Endorphins
thanks for that info...sad..great site!..had regular elferink column as well
good thoughts sent
cheers
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Originally Posted by fasstrack
like sonny sharrock did (pre miles) with herbie mann...totally took the sound elsewhere
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 09-16-2017 at 06:44 PM. Reason: clarity-
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
yes all art is measured by its contrasts..what is white without black...silence without noise?
it's the balance and myriad of shades, textures and tones that make art
cheers
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But some music is just outside. There's almost no coming back in.
I considered myself a free guitarist, kind of. I played with Muhal Richard Abrahams and George Lewis in NYC for a minute among others. Did some playing with Myra Melford. The best thing, I think, is to open yourself up to play some early Ornette. If you can, play a bunch of Ornette with a piano-less band. That'll do wonders for your ears. There are no chords changes but OTOH they're there in an implied way. It makes you listen in bigger ways. Highly recommended.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by henryrobinett; 09-17-2017 at 10:16 AM.
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You might like this. 'In A Sentimental Mood' is the practical standard of the month. This is a take on that.
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I think its good to let structure and familiar rest .. and walk around naked in a supermarket at noon..of course your safe and sane world will come to an end very quickly.
way back in Brockport NY a friend wrote a play (the magic stone) and the music..at one point he went into the piano and played the strings to get an eerie effect that the play needed
The guy who did the lighting had a guitar - he was left handed and played it upside down..that is the low strings were on the bottom of the fretboard and the high strings on top..so I played it the way I normally do..chords, runs all of it..I was fascinated that it sounded so strange it was like a "tape played backward" .. what normally were high notes now were bass lines and all the expected sounds were gone. I had to rethink the normal rhythm in a progression as the chords now demanded new directions and voicings
this to me is a very easy way to play "freestyle" try it..play a tune you know well .. at the very least it will stretch your ears a bit while you walk around the supermarket..
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
This is an important name! One of the founders of the AACM, anyone interested in creative music would be wise to investigate. In fact the first guitarist mentioned in this thread, Jeff Parker is also a member.
I'd also encourage checking out the Chicago label International Anthem. They are putting out great records, check out Makaya McCraven's In the Moment, Jaimie Branch's Fly or Die, and Jeff Parker's The New Breed.
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Great thread, thank you!
What about Loren Mazzacane Connors?
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Yesterday, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading