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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    OK...Who's better- Michael Jordan or George Benson ?
    Magic is the greatest.
    First year...
    The Lakers sucked and they drafted Magic. He talks Kareem out of retiring. they get to the finals and Kareem gets hurt. Magic moves from point guard to center.
    I got it coach..
    Lakers win the title. No one has ever done what Magic Johnson has. He had to compete against the Celtics and they were no joke. He retired in his prime, he had to, with 5 titles.
    Have to give Jordan the edge as the greatest one-on-one player ever.
    Coach John Wooden said it was stupid to compare one-on-one players and team players like Magic.

    It is stupid and people in S. Cal know a thing or two about basketball.
    Plenty of younger people think Bird was a hype. People who had to compete against him think that's funny.

    My favorite player was Tim Duncan.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    OK...Who's better- Michael Jordan or George Benson ?
    At baseball? I dunno, haven't seen George play.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action?"

    --Adam West, as Batman, 1966.

  3. #33
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    I think Stop with the is much better than polls. Polls is just over rated, does not have the sophistication of Stop with the.
    “When you’re creating your own ...., man, even the sky ain’t the limit.”
    Miles Davis

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gggomez View Post
    I think Stop with the is much better than polls. Polls is just over rated, does not have the sophistication of Stop with the.
    "Each heart vibrates to that iron string."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    (who obviously played in Carl Kress tuning)

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    OK...Who's better- Michael Jordan or George Benson ?
    Simple, Sport vs Art - Art wins, every time, and by so much it's actually not even funny, right?....

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Magic is the greatest.
    First year...
    The Lakers sucked and they drafted Magic. He talks Kareem out of retiring. they get to the finals and Kareem gets hurt. Magic moves from point guard to center.
    I got it coach..
    Lakers win the title. No one has ever done what Magic Johnson has. He had to compete against the Celtics and they were no joke. He retired in his prime, he had to, with 5 titles.
    Have to give Jordan the edge as the greatest one-on-one player ever.
    Coach John Wooden said it was stupid to compare one-on-one players and team players like Magic.

    It is stupid and people in S. Cal know a thing or two about basketball.
    Plenty of younger people think Bird was a hype. People who had to compete against him think that's funny.

    My favorite player was Tim Duncan.
    Yea, Magic was the best team player, but hey, I live in So Cal and have been a Lakers fans since I was a tot, so I'm biased.

    As for these 'who is better' discussions; I'm on the TCM classic movie website and of course there are discussions related to actors. I see a difference in comparing actors or musicians versus professional athletes since for the latter one can set up specific criteria as 'measures': I.e. stats.

    Of course stats don't tell the whole story but they are useful.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    ...I see a difference in comparing actors or musicians versus professional athletes since for the latter one can set up specific criteria as 'measures': I.e. stats...
    Try telling that to a Jazz Critic! For decades, they have judged musicians on their "merits", just as people will in music contests or even American Idol... Although it's a dubious business with many judges clearly unfit to judge, at least we should be able to agree that there are indeed quantifiable parameters with which one can make meaningful comparisons.

    I mean, even in some sports (gymnastics, ice skating, synchronised swimming etc) they have categories for "artistic expression" as well as Degree of Difficulty. I'm pretty sure that if you had 10 of the top Jazz guitar players/teachers in the world sit on a panel to judge Jazz guitar performances in a contest (it happens), that they would have little difficulty allotting points for each of a dozen separate categories relating to performance. Surely all judges could never perfectly agree, but you'd expect that if there was a standout contestant, most of the judges would acknowledge it and adjudicate accordingly. If there was only a single judge he/she may get it wrong, 3 (like in Boxing) is a little better, but 10 experienced, qualified judges evaluating performance according to say a dozen set parameters (technique, expressing, invention, melodicism, risk taking, excitement, harmonic sophistication, breadth of language, dynamic control, time control, wow factor, etc etc), you'd expect that they'd find a worthy winner.

    You know if 100 people were polled to guess how many jelly beans in a jar, the average is usually closer than any individual guess. This has been demonstrated numerous times apparently, and is taken as fact. And so it goes with music polls, the majority vote is probably going to yield the true worthy winner, according to the observed parameters. And yeah, I know that other kinds of "polls" like Music Charts always have questionable talent at the #1 spot, but that's because the parameters are different (sex appeal, haircut, video/photos, publicity, catchy hooks, effective production etc etc...), at least very different to the parameters in a Jazz Poll...

    There's been a long standing Poll on this forum where Wes come out on top as our member's favourite player. Having given Wes my vote also, part of me is disappointed to learn that my tastes are indeed rather "common" , heck, I'm one of the millions that also has to confess that Kind Of Blue is also my favourite Jazz album. But instead I should find it edifying, and feel heartened that the Jazz community does indeed tend to have good taste!

    So yeah, to all the haters, I say "Respect the Poll!"

  8. #38
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    Try telling that to a Jazz Critic! For decades, they have judged musicians on their "merits", just as people will in music contests or even American Idol... Although it's a dubious business with many judges clearly unfit to judge, at least we should be able to agree that there are indeed quantifiable parameters with which one can make meaningful comparisons.
    Now you're talking. Critics vs Musicians

    Both have a lot to answer for when it comes to 'quantifiable parameters'
    "I thought I was in Heaven, but I was only up a tree"

  9. #39
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    New poll idea: Favorite dessert: Ices vs. sherbet.

    (Or, for the epicureans among you: Sorbet vs. gelatto).

    Ever glad to be of help, I remain your humble servant...
    Charlie Christian got me in a world of trouble

    ---Me

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    New poll idea: Favorite dessert: Ices vs. sherbet.

    (Or, for the epicureans among you: Sorbet vs. gelatto).

    Ever glad to be of help, I remain your humble servant...

    I'm really hooked on Mangonadas right now...which I guess are kinda like a sorbet...
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Of what use is a dream, if not a blueprint for courageous action?"

    --Adam West, as Batman, 1966.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    I'm really hooked on Mangonadas right now...which I guess are kinda like a sorbet...
    I'm too fat---180 lbs. and only 5'2'' or so. So sweets, amscray. See you in my dreams...
    Charlie Christian got me in a world of trouble

    ---Me

  12. #42
    Gelato, I think. What are the quantifiable parameters?

  13. #43
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    This stuff is getting more out by the minute when I look at these 'vs.' threads. As a japing protest I was gonna post a thread: Me vs. everyone else, w/the first post 'Ha. Made you look!'----but I figured the moderators wouldn't find that too funny...
    Charlie Christian got me in a world of trouble

    ---Me

  14. #44
    ...'Hello Ladies and Gentlemen...and welcome to Apples vs.Oranges..
    Our next Comparison is :Jimi Hendrix vs. Karim Abdul Jabar- who was better ?


    And remember to check in Tomorrow for :

    Muhammad Ali vs. Jon Kriesberg- who would be harder to beat ?

    Boxing Gloves against Ali at his peak .Guitar Playing Duel with Kriesberg ...
    'Good luck...you will need it'.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-13-2017 at 01:33 PM.

  15. #45

    Stop with the vs. polls

    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa View Post
    ...'Hello Ladies and Gentlemen...and welcome to Apples vs.Oranges..
    Our next Comparison is :Jimi Hendrix vs. Karim Abdul Jabar- who was better...?
    At jazz?

    Jabbar, no doubt. These two learned from him.






    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by blille; 09-13-2017 at 01:34 PM.

  16. #46
    Lol. In keeping with my stupid idea...
    Not at Jazz...just 'in General '.

    Clint Eastwood is a big Jazz Fan...really cool when he interviews Ray Charles and Ray talks about ..
    Art Tatum and Oscar Peterson...

    Rocky Marciano vs. Art Tatum...

    If I ever get as good on Guitar as I am at being a Smarta$$ - then I can be in one of the non sequitir comparisons ..
    I am pretty darn good but being a SmartA$$ is soooo much easier..

    New Poll-
    ' Are Jazz Polls killing Jazz and Sports and making Romance too competitive ?'
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-13-2017 at 03:49 PM.

  17. #47
    Join Date
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    London
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    Stop with the vs. polls

    Would it solve the issue just to have 'comparison x and y'? Just observations about two players without there needing to be a winner or any value judgements. I learned a lot from the wes v green thread.

    It is interesting to compare two musicians of a similar era and repertoire.
    Last edited by christianm77; 09-14-2017 at 06:53 AM.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Would it solve the issue just to have 'comparison x and y'? Just observations about two players without there needing to be a winner or any value judgements. I learned a lot from the wes v green thread.

    It is interesting to compare two musicians of a similar era and repertoire.
    Yes.I'm sure we will all take it much more seriously if it's in the Players or Theory Section...
    I always try to absorb what I can from the Veterans and Theorists here...and / or be inspired by the People mentioned in the Player's Section .

    Just clowning around here....no issue nobody cares...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-14-2017 at 11:23 AM.

  19. #49
    Karim Abdul Jabbar vs. Alvin Lee at JAZZ:



    Ha.
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 09-14-2017 at 11:29 AM.

  20. #50
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Would it solve the issue just to have 'comparison x and y'? Just observations about two players without there needing to be a winner or any value judgements. I learned a lot from the wes v green thread.

    It is interesting to compare two musicians of a similar era and repertoire.
    Well said. Comparing what songs they select for their albums, do they play in trios or quartets, their band mates, etc....,, and of course their overall approach of expressing themselves.

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