What is this amp Herb Ellis is Playing Through?

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-11-2015, 09:29 AM

Found this great image of Ellis from 1962 and couldn't ID the amp.

What is this amp Herb Ellis is Playing Through?-herb20ellis201962-jpg

The image is from this Danish [corrected from Dutch] site:

Ole Brask billedgalleri

**MarkRhodes** · 07-11-2015, 10:28 AM

Me neither. Hope someone can though.

Here's a track of Herb's from 1961, the year before this pic was taken. (I don't know of any record of Herb's released in 1962.)

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-11-2015, 10:34 AM

Allmusic has Midnight Roll being released in 62. I've been on an Herb Ellis kick lately. I'm finding his single line work is great for my rock/surf trio.

**Little Jay** · 07-11-2015, 01:48 PM

That site is Danish, not Dutch

**MarkRhodes** · 07-11-2015, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Allmusic has Midnight Roll being released in 62. I've been on an Herb Ellis kick lately. I'm finding his single line work is great for my rock/surf trio.

I love Herb's single-line work. This is from earlier than '62 but I like it. Learned it a few months. it's from his tribute to Charlie Christian, and since I'm about to tackle Barney Kessel's "Salute To Charlie Christian", this is on my mind. Lots of tasty licks. (Ironically---for me, a guy who grew up playing rock and blues--the toughest part of this solo for me are the bends!)

**Little Jay** · 07-11-2015, 03:52 PM

The amp resembles Scotty Moore's EchoSonic amp by Ray Butts a little bit, but I don't think it's the same.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-11-2015, 04:52 PM

Jay,
thanks for the correction.

Mark,
Thank you CC I think is Ellis at his best.

**MarkRhodes** · 07-11-2015, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Mark,
Thank you CC I think is Ellis at his best.

I love that too. I also love "Ellis In Wonderland". Here's a Gershwin tune from that set, "Somebody Loves Me."

**SamBooka** · 07-11-2015, 11:05 PM

Does anyone know what year herb changed the P 90 out of his guitar?

destinytot · 07-11-2015, 11:48 PM

I didn't know what I was missing... Herb Ellis - WOW!!! I get it.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-12-2015, 08:48 AM

Destiny,
I never paid him much attention when I was younger. I knew he was great but I was too focused on Wes or Burrell. Once I started transcribing CC and Parker stuff I then started hearing Ellis in a new light. Its like his early solos are a nice bridge bridge between early bebop and the later modern guitar playing.

And maybe its just me, but when I transcribe his early work I keep hearing little hints of what I can only call "Texas" or Western Swing artifacts. I know he grew up there so maybe its just in my head.

**TheGrandWazoo** · 07-12-2015, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I love that too. I also love "Ellis In Wonderland". Here's a Gershwin tune from that set, "Somebody Loves Me."

Funy, I just finished learning the first two choruses of the solo on this one. I'm now working on the solo in "Pogo". This album is great to work on as he tends to play a lot his standard licks throughout this album. Almost every solo has a variation on the begining Parker's solo in "Now's the Time" and he uses a lot of minor pentatonics off the root ala the intro to "Somebody Loves Me". I'm finding this a great album at getting into Ellis's thinking... I think.

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Destiny,
I never paid him much attention when I was younger. I knew he was great but I was too focused on Wes or Burrell. Once I started transcribing CC and Parker stuff I then started hearing Ellis in a new light. Its like his early solos are a nice bridge bridge between early bebop and the later modern guitar playing.

And maybe its just me, but when I transcribe his early work I keep hearing little hints of what I can only call "Texas" or Western Swing artifacts. I know he grew up there so maybe its just in my head.

Fascinating post! I too looked past Herb early on. In retrospect, I'm not sure why. He does something everyone I love in jazz does, which is to put a bit of blues in everything. (George Benson says Jack McDuff taught him to do that.) And I agree about the Texas / Western Swing / down home elements too.

Speaking of which, here is Herb with Eldon Shamblin, who was (-as you know but others may not) guitarist for Bob Wills' Texas Playboys for, what, a half century? Story goes that in the old days, Bob would pick someone to play bass for the band---this would be a real honor for the person chosen, but in most cases, the man chosen wasn't a professional player-- so Eldon developed a style of chording that carried a nice bass line too. I don't know if that's how it happened, but Eldon could sure 'walk them chords.'

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I didn't know what I was missing... Herb Ellis - WOW!!! I get it.

Well, Mike, you are in for a treat. Herb made a lot of great records. He also accompanied singers (-Ella, most notably, and he's on many sessions where Ella and Louis worked their magic) and was part of the drumless Oscar Peterson Trio for several years. The guy could swing. And burn. What's more, he put out several books about how he played out of a few simple chord shapes. (There's a thread here on his "Swing Blues" book.)

**mr. beaumont** · 07-12-2015, 09:48 AM

And he bent strings!

Nothing but the blues is my favorite. I need to out that on.like tight now.

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

And he bent strings!

Nothing but the blues is my favorite. I need to out that on.like tight now.

I know! And I have trouble with some of his bends now that I wouldn't have had trouble with as a kid (-because I was playing a solid body with super slinky strings). He also could slide around really well.

Yeah, "Nothin' But The Blues" is a great record, one of his best. Here's "Royal Garden Blues" form that.

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by SamBooka

Does anyone know what year herb changed the P 90 out of his guitar?

I don't know the year. He bought his Gibson in '53 and played it ever since (-at least up until the time of this interview). He's asked about it in this interview (-see link below) and says he liked the Humbucker better. The interview is worth reading in full.

Here's an interesting exchange about Herb's preference for laminates over spruce top guitars:

>>>Why do you prefer a laminated top over a solid spruce top?
HE: I like the sound. See, a lot of people don’t know that if you’re playing electric guitar, if it has a great acoustic sound, that’s bad, ‘cause it gets mixed up with the electric sound and it will feed back and you’ll have a lot of trouble. So you’re better off to have one that doesn’t make much sound. The pickup takes the vibrations from the string. So long as the strings are vibrating, you’ll get a sound. <<<<

Herb Ellis Interview with a Jazz Legend - Guitar Stories - Talkin' Guitars

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Found this great image of Ellis from 1962 and couldn't ID the amp.

What is this amp Herb Ellis is Playing Through?-herb20ellis201962-jpg

The image is from this Danish [corrected from Dutch] site:

In the interview linked in another post on this thread, Herb says he used a Fender amp for studio work but preferred a Polytone for jazz. (He said that in the studio he might have to play anything---pop, country, rock, movie scores, TV themes...)

**MarkRhodes** · 07-12-2015, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Funy, I just finished learning the first two choruses of the solo on this one. I'm now working on the solo in "Pogo". This album is great to work on as he tends to play a lot his standard licks throughout this album. Almost every solo has a variation on the begining Parker's solo in "Now's the Time" and he uses a lot of minor pentatonics off the root ala the intro to "Somebody Loves Me". I'm finding this a great album at getting into Ellis's thinking... I think.

Herb has a lot of standard licks and a lot of ways to vary them. Charlie Christian did that too, and so did Charlie Parker. The treasure trove of Herb's licks--and the way he played them--is in his book "All The Shapes You Are." He takes each chord of ATTYA and plays a vamp on it. (By 'vamp' he means playing out of one shape for several measures, usually 8 or more.) It's not every lick / phrase / pattern he knew, but boy, as the old song says, "that's a-plenty!"

He did like that "Now's the Time" lick. (Hey, who doesn't, right?) He also uses it in "Naptown Blues" from an album that reunites him with Oscar Peterson. Here's that cut. It's fast and sometimes I worry it's a little faster than Herb's comfortable with. It's also an example of his great rhythmic feel. The dude could comp.

destinytot · 07-12-2015, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheGrandWazoo

Destiny,
I never paid him much attention when I was younger.

Me neither - I couldn't 'hear' him above the sound of Oscar's fireworks. Interesting that I sought out Pass, but I'll keep the lid on that particular Freudian rabbit hole of mine. I'm delighted to acknowledge and respect Herb Ellis as one of The Greats (and myself as a fool).

Its like his early solos are a nice bridge bridge between early bebop and the later modern guitar playing.

That's exactly what grabbed me. His playing on the recordings posted bears quite a mark - noble footprints, if ever there were any - and the company he kept.... I don't mean the Great Guitars. If I had to name just one favourite jazz musician, it would have to be Sweets (love his albums with Jimmy Forrest).

Lot to learn from studying the playing of a man like that; I'm left with a lot to ponder.

Herb Ellis seems to have cleaner execution and brighter tone than either Barney Kessel or Tal Farlow. And the Benson connection sounds obvious to me.

destinytot · 07-12-2015, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Well, Mike, you are in for a treat. Herb made a lot of great records. He also accompanied singers (-Ella, most notably, and he's on many sessions where Ella and Louis worked their magic) and was part of the drumless Oscar Peterson Trio for several years. The guy could swing. And burn. What's more, he put out several books about how he played out of a few simple chord shapes. (There's a thread here on his "Swing Blues" book.)

Thanks - I'll check out that thread, Mark!

destinytot · 07-12-2015, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I know! And I have trouble with some of his bends now that I wouldn't have had trouble with as a kid (-because I was playing a solid body with super slinky strings). He also could slide around really well.

Yeah, "Nothin' But The Blues" is a great record, one of his best. Here's "Royal Garden Blues" form that.

I've heard 5 seconds so far - I love it. I'm not a fan of guitars trying to sound like horns. What I've heard so far is about cooperation. Back to listening - all ears!
EDIT 1: What?!!! Roy Eldridge and Stan Getz!!
EDIT 2: I find it infinitely more enjoyable listening to the polished presentation of this recording than to those of CC (and Bird) which are less so.

And that shout chorus - HELLO!!!

destinytot · 07-12-2015, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Herb has a lot of standard licks and a lot of ways to vary them. Charlie Christian did that too, and so did Charlie Parker. The treasure trove of Herb's licks--and the way he played them--is in his book "All The Shapes You Are." He takes each chord of ATTYA and plays a vamp on it. (By 'vamp' he means playing out of one shape for several measures, usually 8 or more.) It's not every lick / phrase / pattern he knew, but boy, as the old song says, "that's a-plenty!"

He did like that "Now's the Time" lick. (Hey, who doesn't, right?) He also uses it in "Naptown Blues" from an album that reunites him with Oscar Peterson. Here's that cut. It's fast and sometimes I worry it's a little faster than Herb's comfortable with. It's also an example of his great rhythmic feel. The dude could comp.

WH-AA-T? Such a powerful blend of excitement and elegance in a classic-jazz solo. (Off topic, but that's what I seem to be picking up from all of Reg's posts - the same 'jazz attitude'. A decidedly Good Thing - 'accept no substitutes'.)