Kurt Rosenwinkel

[newfornow]

I couldn't find a thread dedicated to him and his playing. For anybody who doesn't know, you can download 2 of his sets from The Village Vanguard for free on NPR's website.. In my opinion this guy has turned jazz on its head.


Kurt Rosenwinkel: Live At The Village Vanguard : NPR Music


The second set is awesome, check it out!

[Little Jay]

Cool stuff!
This will expand my horizons once more.

Thanx for sharing!

[mfarkas]

his new untitled tune, the second one of the second set, is amazing. im trying to transcribe a chart for it.

[newfornow]

I'm currently transcribing his 5 minute solo on turns. I'm two choruses in.. probably the hardest changes I have ever come across.

[m78w]

I just saw him yesterday in Chicago with his quartet, it was pretty amazing. He played some standards and originals and then for the last tune he played Zhivago, but did it like way faster than the album and then double timed it! His solo was a cool mix of Coltrane, Slash and Holdsworth, very cool.

If you like Kurt I highly recommend checking him out live. I've seen his over 10 times and he's always way better in person than on CD, if you can believe that!

MW

[newfornow]

ah that must have been quite the experience! I would love to see him live. he's really taking the whole sheets of sound approach to the next level..

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by m78w

I just saw him yesterday in Chicago with his quartet, it was pretty amazing. He played some standards and originals and then for the last tune he played Zhivago, but did it like way faster than the album and then double timed it! His solo was a cool mix of Coltrane, Slash and Holdsworth, very cool.

If you like Kurt I highly recommend checking him out live. I've seen his over 10 times and he's always way better in person than on CD, if you can believe that!

MW

aw, man, i was there too. i should have probably been able to recognize ya! would have come over and introduced myself...

i had never been a big fan of kurt's writing, but his playing is top notch...but after seeing some of his own tunes live, i think i "get" them a little better...

[jsteele]

matt can you drop some science on us regarding your knowledge of some of the younger players?

kurt, monder, kreisberg, gilad and others...if you have any insights, transcriptions etc...i would be greatly indebted.

[m78w]

that's kind of a big topic for a post. If you have specific questions that would help me better answer your question.

Maybe: How does so and so do this. Or, Why did so and so play that? etc

MW

[newfornow]

okay here is something that has me a bit of a loss..



how does one improvise on a tune with changes this tough? I guess thinking the notes might help a bit.. I just wonder what anybody who is TRULY improvising is really thinking when trying to negotiate a tune like this, or any tune for that matter. how would you/they approach a tune like giant steps or something like this? is it all chord tones?

http://www.jazzenzo.nl/images/pdf/Turns.pdf

[m78w]

Check this article out, it might help you with blowing over fast moving changes.

Giant Steps For Guitar: Simplifying The Coltrane Matrix

MW

[newfornow]

hey thanks I'll check it out.

[jsteele]

alright i will narrow it down...as yes that sort of thing is the topic for several books rather than a simple post.

listening to gilad hekselmann with ari hoenig and on his own records i have become rather fascinated with his chord work. i was wondering if you had done any listening to him and if you had any ideas about the sorts of inversions he is using to achieve the kind of voice leading he demonstrates.

[m78w]

Sure thing. Believe it or not Kurt normally uses only three types of voicings in his comping/chord soloing. He tends to use 3rd and 7th voicings ala Lenny Breau and Ed Bickert, then he uses tons of 4th voicings that come from McCoy Tyner and Herbie Hancock as well as Jim Hall, the last voicing he likes to use is non-root triads, so triads starting on the 3rd, 5th, 7th etc of the chord.

What makes him sound so unique with these simple voicings are the subs he uses and how he mixes them all together.

MW

[mfarkas]

do you have an example or two of the subs he likes to use off the top of your head?

[m78w]

Sure, Kurt likes to divide the octave into 4 equal parts and then use any/all of those chords when soloing.

If he has a Cmaj7 chord for example, in his head he sees Cmaj7+Ebmaj7+Gbmaj7+Amaj7, so a Cdim7 chord harmonized with maj7 chords. Sounds a bit wacky but it works fairly well as a sub system.

So if he has Cmaj7 he would play any/all of those chords over the Cmaj7, he might play Cma7-Ama7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ebmaj7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ama7-Gbmaj, or maybe just Ebmaj7, or Gbmaj7.

This is a big concept to get all at once. Maybe start by taking the chord you have written, say F7 in in the first four bars of an F blues, and going back and forth between F7 and B7, or F7 and Ab7, or F7 and D7. Then once that gets comfortable you can mix 3 chords, then 4 chords together.

MW

[jsteele]

Right...I get all of that. It is a unique sub system and very interesting to look at. I was trying to get into the voicings of some other contemporary players.namely gilad hekselmann and maybe lage lund as well.

[m78w]

Ah, well I don't really know those guys very well, I'm more of a Monder, Rosenwinkel, Rogers guy.

your best bet is to transcibe those guys comping over tunes. It can be hard and take a long time but it's worth it. I've transcribed an album by Rogers and an album by Kurt and even though there were days when I wanted to break my guitar over my knee in the end the pluses far outweighed the minuses.

MW

[jsteele]

ben monder's playing on the jerome sabbagh album 'north' really turned my head upside down. i have been spinning it constantly and each time something strikes me.

as for transcribing...i am a rank amateur. though i am struggling to make improvements.

[tapintoamerica]

thanks for the useful tips on KR and the NPR download! I am a big fan of his playing. where can i find the scores to his compositions, i.e., the changes? I would like to analyze his music.

[David B]

Originally Posted by tapintoamerica

thanks for the useful tips on KR and the NPR download! I am a big fan of his playing. where can i find the scores to his compositions, i.e., the changes? I would like to analyze his music.

+ plenty of KR transcriptions out there on the net, for example:
brucesaunders.com
Rosenwinkel transcriptions at Rosendahl’s music website
Transcriptions

[David B]

Originally Posted by jsteele

I was trying to get into the voicings of some other contemporary players.namely gilad hekselmann and maybe lage lund as well.

You should get 'Modern Chords: Advanced Harmony for Guitar' by Vic Juris. Those contemporary voicings are there. Modern Chords - by Vic Juris - 20440BCD | Mel Bay Publications, Inc.

[tapintoamerica]

thanks!

[tapintoamerica]

Originally Posted by m78w

Sure, Kurt likes to divide the octave into 4 equal parts and then use any/all of those chords when soloing.

If he has a Cmaj7 chord for example, in his head he sees Cmaj7+Ebmaj7+Gbmaj7+Amaj7, so a Cdim7 chord harmonized with maj7 chords. Sounds a bit wacky but it works fairly well as a sub system.

So if he has Cmaj7 he would play any/all of those chords over the Cmaj7, he might play Cma7-Ama7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ebmaj7-Cmaj7, or Cmaj7-Ama7-Gbmaj, or maybe just Ebmaj7, or Gbmaj7.

This is a big concept to get all at once. Maybe start by taking the chord you have written, say F7 in in the first four bars of an F blues, and going back and forth between F7 and B7, or F7 and Ab7, or F7 and D7. Then once that gets comfortable you can mix 3 chords, then 4 chords together.

MW

Hi Matt,

I've been tossing around the ideas you presented above (C-A-F#-Eb major seventh substitutions over Cmaj7) and trying to understand them a bit better. The thing is that any particular pair of chords sounds ok, but taken together they seem to sound a bit weird and I'm not sure I'm using it right. Are the A, F# and Eb meant more to provide contrast (for example as passing chords or are they the main focus? If the latter, it seems they could really disturb a soloist who is doing his own thing in the key of C major. I know Kurt's comping doesn't sound like what I hear when I play those chords. Enlighten me, please!

[m78w]

Kurt would use that approach more for soloing than comping. Most of the times I've seen him live he tends to lay out behind the piano solos, and comp very sparsely behind sax solos.

He would use them in chords, but mostly in his own chord solos, rather than comping. The key to this for me is to learn to hear the different keys. That way you'll know when it's a good time to play "out" and when it's time to bring it back "in."

I don't know for sure, but I'd guess Kurt spent a few hundred, if not thousand, hours working through this stuff before it really became a part of his own voice.

Take your time, start with two chords, then three, then four. If you don't like one or more of the chords, just skip them and use the ones you like.

MW

[tapintoamerica]

i think i get it. playing "out" vs "in" you have to learn to use it wisely. thanks!

[AG129]

I actually took a lesson with gilad and a masterclass with Kurt both very insightful. I cant give transcriptions but i can tell you a bit of what each one does.

Gilad- Whenever hes practicing and makes a mistake, he stops and thinks about why he made it. Also composes lyrics in his head to his improv to make it more lyrical.

Kurt- Cycles through pentatonics in whole-steps fluidly for that contemporary sound.

[m78w]

Here's the link to the new Kurt transcription book:

Amazon.com: Mel Bay presents Kurt Rosenwinkel Trio - East Coast Love Affair Guitar Transcriptions: Kurt Rosenwinkel: Books

MW

[fast1]

thanks

[peacebone]

This thread is chock full of great stuff. Thanks for sharing, ppl.