Barney Kessells guitar, any other musicians guitars being used

[jazzbow]

I came across this. Bruce Foreman has released a new CD and took a photo opportunity with Barneys ES 350.

Here's the article Bruce Forman Playing Barney Kessel’s Guitar + A New CD!! : Jazz Guitar Lives at Jazz Guitar Life


Look at that cheesy smile. Lucky bleeder!

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Here's the famed selmer belonging to Stocholo Rosenberg, I think its production number was very close to that of Djangos #504 selmer on show at "Cité De La Musique" in Paris.

[hot ford coupe]

Wow!! How did Foreman get so dang lucky to play that horn? I wonder how high the action is.

[daveg]

I'm convinced that Barney alternated two of these ES 350's.

If you look at footage in chronological order you might notice that a third hole where a tone or volume control might have once been, appears then disappears then appears again. The finish also changes from time to time.

DG

[wintermoon]

he only had the one ES-350.
but he had it refinished 4 or 5 times over the years....

[daveg]

Holes don't normally appear then disappear..........

Take a look at the pictures on pages 110 and 111 of the "Just Jazz Guitar" Barney Kessel Collectors Edition?

DG

[wintermoon]

don't have it Dave, but it's possible that the hole was filled when it was refinished

[daveg]

PLEASE take a closer look at the picture in the link above which is current?

Give me a little while to scan the pictures.

DG

[daveg]

Here you go, 4 pictures:








These are in chronological order.

I have a "Club Date" video of Barney with Herb from the 90's on which he is playing the one with the "hole" - it seems to be plugged with something. The last picture was taken by Just Jazz Guitar editor Ed Benson in the late 90's.

In one of the articles in the special edition Barney is quoted as saying that he "thinks" he bought it around 1947. That's a long time to be gigging with the same guitar as much as Barney did and it would have made sense to have one for standby "just in case". I believe that the "standby" is what we are seeing in the picture at the top of the page. Whether or not the original still exists is anyone's guess.

Notice that the CC Pickup sits squarer in the hole in the "original es350" than in the one with the hole?

DG

[gcb]

The night of 28 to 29 May 1985 I had the memorable experience of being at "Lush Life" in Greenwich Village New York where Barney Kessel and Herb Ellis performed three consecutive shows. They had the kindness to invite me to their table during the intermission from the second to the last entrance. Even the time elapsed I find that the guitar showed in DAVEG's third photo, corresponding to the Hamburg concert, is very similar to the one Barney played at that show. We did talk about guitars also. At that time I was the proud owner of a Norlin Super 400 that had to sell in 1991.

[jazzbow]

Check the pictures and the different position markers on the fingerboard.

I seem to remember that Barney had a new fingerboard with a different scale length to the original put on way back when he first got a es350. Can any one back that up?

[jazzbow]

Oh, and he filed out a notch in the pickup blade under the B string in an attempt to balance the string response through an amp!
My kinda guy! If you don't like the feel or tone of a guitar then beat it into submission with mods until it responds the way you want it to.

[jazzbow]

I found this fingerboard dot thing really interesting.

Check these vids

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7 dots

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10 dots

Of course we could have a re-boarded fingerboard over time.

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An over used clip but go to .35" and you'll see the mystery third hole!

Also... (quoted from google search)
Barney's es 350 was modified by late Milt Owens who also worked as luthier in his Music City on Sunset Blvd in late 60s. the rosewood fingerboard was changed to ebony board, the bridge was carved from Maccasar ebony by Milt


And that guitar may have been strummed by Django himself......

[daveg]

Re: the fingerboard - you might be thinking of what Tal Farlow did?

You can just see that guitar in the Lenny Breau / Tal Farlow clip.

DG

[wintermoon]

"Oh, and he filed out a notch in the pickup blade under the B string in an attempt to balance the string response through an amp!"

the pickup was like that originally, they were made that way for a year or so in the prewar era. there was another CC p.u. installed later.

[jazzbow]

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2.58 for the filed notch on the pickup which isn't apparent on all the above photos or clips!
Looks like Barney is a modding monster!

[jazzbow]

"Oh, and he filed out a notch in the pickup blade under the B string in an attempt to balance the string response through an amp!"

the pickup was like that originally, they were made that way for a year or so in the prewar era. there was another CC p.u. installed later.

Is it a self inflicted notch? What do you think??

The whole pickup looks marked!

[daveg]

I had not noticed before that the p/u was much closer to the end of the f/b than it ended up later.

DG

[wintermoon]

fun thread but I'm still going to disagree Dave.

if you look very, very, closely in the Oct 5 pic you can faintly see the outline of where the hole was plugged in a line straight down from the knobs. in the other pics it looks like it was plugged w/ some sort of raised plug

he didn't have two CC p.u. 350's custom made in the late 40's. the only other known one was custom ordered by Hank Garland and pictured on his Jazz Winds and Unforgettable Guitar lp covers.

Song of the Day (July 7, 2012): Hank Garland – Call D. Law | Don Anton


this is the only video I've ever seen of him playing something besides his 350, likely made when his guitar was in the shop

[oldane]

"Oh, and he filed out a notch in the pickup blade under the B string in an attempt to balance the string response through an amp!"

the pickup was like that originally, they were made that way for a year or so in the prewar era. there was another CC p.u. installed later.

Yup. That was the ones made in 1938. I have one of those retrofitted (before my time) in an old 1934 L37. It helps the B string volume to get in balance. On my sample, the low E string is too loud however, so this guitar and its PU is more a museum piece for me than a utility guitar. Whatever, Barney surely could make it work.

[jazzbow]

Is it a self inflicted notch? What do you think??

The whole pickup looks marked!

Is it a self inflicted notch? Can anyone confirm? The picture looks from the late 60's.

[daveg]

I think that what you are seeing is something which is "wrapped" over the blade under the second string.

The picture on the front cover of the JJG Collectors issue clearly shows an UN-notched pu in the es350 with the hole. It is the same as the guitar pictured in the late 90's by Ed Benson - no notch.

DG

[jazzbow]

I think that what you are seeing is something which is "wrapped" over the blade under the second string.

The picture on the front cover of the JJG Collectors issue clearly shows an UN-notched pu in the es350 with the hole. It is the same as the guitar pictured in the late 90's by Ed Benson - no notch.

DG

If there was something "wrapped" then it would have to effect the magnetic flux from the steel blade.

Did you check the vid I posted? I think it was from a VHS tape, I've got a DVD of that gig, I'll have to search for it and get back to you.

[jazzbow]

Dave, the b/w 1973 picture has a notched blade and what looks like white play dough under the treble side of the pickup and the sunburst spray pattern looks tear drop shaped where as the last one you show the pattern seems to follow the shape of the guitar.
Boy, this is really cool. He seems to have had a lot done to this guitar. How much of the original guitar is left?
He did have his own guitar shop in Hollywood in the late 60's so there could have been many different mods done to that ole' guitar!

[daveg]

He did have his own guitar shop in Hollywood in the late 60's so there could have been many different mods done to that ole' guitar!

.....or even "those old guitars"?

Depending on the material used it would have reduced the predominance of the B string without needing surgery. An old trick.

Another line of thought - the one without the hole always has a truss rod cover. The one with the hole never (?) has a truss rod cover.

DG

[daveg]

I have just spend a few hours browsing through all of the Kessel Video that I have looking at Barney's Guitar and can report:

It was still a "Gibson ES350" when Barney toured with George Wein in 1969.

In some 1973 footage (Legends of Jazz Guitar 1) it can be clearly seen that the pickup is definitely "notched" at the second string - the "Gibson" had disappeared.

In an Oscar Peterson Trio session from Scott's Club in London 1977 (BBC) the notching is again seen as well as the "blue tack" providing some vibration resistance at the treble side of the pickup.

The "hole" first appeared around 1979.

After much searching there doesn't appear to be any footage which supports the re-appearance of a "non-holed" ES350. The photo above which gave me so much trouble - the one marked 1987 in the JJG Collector's Edition was most likely taken on the Great Guitars European Tour in 1976-1977 and wrongly dated.

DG

[wintermoon]

he only had one ES-350

[jazzbow]

.....or even "those old guitars"?
DG

I've done some video research as well! Check this out....


'Blue Mist' pix. Legends of Jazz Guitar (LJG) vol 2.
A notch or cut, the pickup binding facing the bridge is missing whereas the other side is stepped. Note the adjustment screw is quite shiny/new looking. The finger board has 10 dots and the sunburst is teardrop shaped and 2 toned. I can only guess this is late 60's.


'Medley' LJG vol 3.
A wrap of some sort going over the blade, a shadow can be seen. Note the adjustment screws are discoloured. It's the 10 dot neck and 2 tone sunburst, teardrop shape. Same backing band and hairstyle as the previous image/track so again 60's?


'BBC Blues' LJG vol 2.
Here we see a later CC pickup with the notch already there. The adjustment screws look clean. Now this is the 7 dot neck and the sunburst shape follows the outline of the guitar body and is 3 toned with a lot of red showing. As for the date I think it's 70's.

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Yup, that old video clip but as he says....
'This pickup was built in 1939, it has a very high quality of cobalt and copper which is unavailable in the world today!'
Ha! That's because he's been trashing them....

Just another thing, the pickup placement seems to move about from one clip to another, interesting!

This has been a very interesting search, thanks for all the input.
Any other players guitars still being used after they've moved on?

[Little Jay]

I think Grant Green's son, Grant Green Jr, is using his father's guitar - the D'Angelico that Grant used at the very end of his career. I'm not sure though.

I would really like to know what happened to Wes' L5, Grant's ES-330, Atilla Zoller's Framus AZ10, Jim Hall's ES-175 (Fortunately, Jim's still alive and kicking, but he sold it!), Emily Remler's modified ES-330 and her Borys...

Oh, and the ES-125 of Wim Overgauw is now being used by Martijn van Iterson!

[oldane]

I would really like to know what happened to Wes' L5, Grant's ES-330, Atilla Zoller's Framus AZ10, Jim Hall's ES-175 (Fortunately, Jim's still alive and kicking, but he sold it!), Emily Remler's modified ES-330 and her Borys...

As for Wes' L5 (the one with the heart on it), check this out:

WES MONTGOMERY GUITAR

The other custom made 1-PU L5 (the one with his name inlaid) is now on display in his home town, Indianapolis. It's my understanding that his widow had it until it was given to the museum. A photo of it behind glass in the museum can be seen in Adrian Ingrams book on wes.

[daveg]

A few days ago I sent an e-mail to a colleague in Australia who knew Barney well and accompanied him on some tours. He replied this morning saying that "I recall Ike Isaacs telling me years ago that Barney had two ES350's and he sold one to someone in Germany".

It was Ike who introduced me to Barney, Herb and Charlie backstage at the Queen Elizabeth Hall in London in 1978.

Barney Kessel Autograph

I'll continue to think that there were two Barney Kessel ES350 guitars - the evidence points in that direction and I see no other explanation for the appearance of the hole in the post 1979 version of the ES350 that he played.

Oldane, Thanks for linking to my old site - I no longer have any control over it and can't update or delete anything there.

DG