Tenor guitar jazz players?

[IdahoGuitarguy]

Just wondering if there are, or were, and players who played their jazz on a tenor guitar.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by IdahoGuitarguy

Just wondering if there are, or were, and players who played their jazz on a tenor guitar.

Not sure if this is what you are asking, but yes, the tenor guitar was produced at least partly to facilitate switching from the banjo to the guitar as a swing and jazz rhythm instrument.

Here's a linktenorguitar.com

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

The only really famous guitarist I can think of is Tiny Grimes, who played with Art Tatum.

[Eddie Lang]

Although uncommon, the tenor guitar is a great instrument to play jazz.

Eddie Condon and Tiny Grimes are a couple "vintage" players. Nowadays, I can think of Joe Engbino and I think that Katie Cavera occasionally plays tenor guitar too. I'll post again if others come to mind.

[BlueMiles]

Forgive my ignorance (I'm not a player), but I'm not sure what is meant by tenor guitar. And what are guitars normally?

[Eddie Lang]

Originally Posted by BlueMiles

Forgive my ignorance (I'm not a player), but I'm not sure what is meant by tenor guitar. And what are guitars normally?

Standard tuning on a regular 6 string guitar is EADGBE from the sixth to the first string. Each string goes up a fourth from the preceding one (except the B string which goes up a major third from the G).

A tenor guitar has four strings tuned in fifths CGDA. The open C on the lower string is the same pitch as the C played on the third fret of the fourth string of a "normal" guitar. The open A on the first string is the same pitch as the A played on the fifth fret of the first string of a 6 string guitar.

A mandolin is also tuned in fifths, but it is tuned GDAE, one fifth higher than a tenor guitar. The chord shapes on the tenor guitar are the same as on the mandolin, just different names.

[monk]

There is also a tuning for tenor guitar called "Chicago tuning". Same tuning as a baritone ukulele.

The notes are DGBE, low to high, like the top four strings of a standard guitar. This is the tuning Tiny Grimes used and is most likely the one used by Wes Montgomery from age 13 until he switched to six string at 19.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by Eddie Lang

Eddie Condon and Tiny Grimes are a couple "vintage" players.

Condon played a plectrum guitar, longer scale length and lower tuning than a tenor guitar.
Brad

[Eddie Lang]

Tiny Grimes could very well have been playing DGBE. That's what people seem to say on various forums anyway and I don't want to argue since I do not know for certain which tuning he used. I do remember however hearing quite a few times a story about Grimes always having fun seeing guitarists' bewildered face when they'd try his guitar and they wouldn't be able to play it properly because of the tuning. I don't know how much truth there is to that story.

I tried looking for clues, first in videos, but I couldn't see his hand clearly enough, then in photos. Not many of them where he is clearly playing a chord, not just soloing, but I did manage to find a couple.

In the first pic, he is playing 9-10-9-10. In CGDA it would be a G9, but in DGBE it would be a diminished chord. It's a tie...

In the second pic, it is harder to see exactly where his fingers are. He could be chording a G7 in DGBE, but if he is playing in CGDA, it could be a minor 6 inversion (Fmin6 or Emin6 depending on the exact location of fingers) or a Db6. It remains unclear...

Bottom line: I am still not sure what he is playing. I may lean on DGBE.

[hot ford coupe]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

Condon played a plectrum guitar, longer scale length and lower tuning than a tenor guitar.
Brad

I honestly didn't know that. I thought they were both the same thing. You learn something new everyday. Thanks.

[BlueMiles]

The technical stuff loses me. I guess I would like to know what are the advantages and disadvantages of tenor guitar--and is this something a layman can hear?

[Eddie Lang]

Hi BlueMiles. To me at least, it is not a question of advantages and disadvantages. The difference between a 6-string guitar and a tenor guitar is a bit like the difference between a ukulele (or a bass) and a mandolin. They are just very different instruments with very different sounds and playing technique. And what they have in common is pretty much what all (western) fretted instruments have in common.

Below are two of my guitars. Both have an all mahogany body. On the left a 1937 Martin 0-17T (tenor guitar) and on the right a 1941 Martin 0-15.

[colduc]

the first person who introduced me to the tenor guitar was a trad jazz player who used an archtop tenor as his regular guitar. played a lot like eddie condon with a bit of roy smeck flash. really love the wide, spaced out voicings you can get on them.

[Joe Carlson]

I have read in several places that Wes started out on a tenor guitar:

"Montgomery started learning the six string guitar at the relatively late age of 20 by listening to and learning the recordings of his idol, guitarist Charlie Christian, however he had played a four string tenor guitar since age twelve"

Wes Montgomery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Classic Jazz Guitar - Guitarists

Although she is not a jazzer, Neko Case has written some pretty good tunes on a tenor guitar.

[tonedeaf]

Great thread. I have had a back-burner idea for awhile to spend some time looking at the history of the physical development of guitars.

This thread has turned up the heat. Can anyone recommend a good book that traces this history (preferably with high-quality photos)?

[oldane]

Acoustic rhythm guitar players often play 2 and 3 note chords on the lowest 4 strings. As such one could argue that what they really do is play "tenor guitar" on a six string instrument as long as they don't use the top two strings. But of course the tuning of a six string guitar is different. Freddie Green almost always stayed on the lower 4 strings when playing rhythm. BTW, he was a banjo player before switching to guitar.

[bigdaddyguitar]

In the mid-20s , the mandolin craze really started to decline , and the banjo took off . The banjo was the major rhythm instrument in bands . A few years later , the guitar started to gain populatity . To make it easier for banjo players to switch over to guitar , the four string [Tenor] guitar came about . Most of Gibsons guitars , from ESs to Les Pauls , were available on special order as Tenor guitars .

[Eddie Lang]

Originally Posted by oldane

Acoustic rhythm guitar players often play 2 and 3 note chords on the lowest 4 strings. As such one could argue that what they really do is play "tenor guitar" on a six string instrument as long as they don't use the top two strings.

Except that the tenor guitar would be just the top 4 strings of a 6-string guitar (if tuned DGBE) or even higher (if tuned standard tenor CGDA)... So it's nothing like playing the lowest 4 strings...

[jasonc]

Howard Elkins plays tenor guitar. He plays with the Jim Cullum Jazz Band out of San Antonio. I remember asking him about the tuning and I think (it's been a few years and I've slept since then ) he said he tunes in fifths but from F.....so F C G D. He's a great player and a real nice guy.

[ptrallan01]

Does anyone know of a company producing tenor guitars today? I have looked around and don't see them anyplace that has any. I've been in music stores in northern IL, southern WI and around Minneapolis this year just looking and no one had one.

I would love to try one. I think it would work well with the way I think about music. I'm not interested in Uke's but may have to try that instead.

Thanks

[Eddie Lang]

Originally Posted by ptrallan01

Does anyone know of a company producing tenor guitars today?

Blueridge and Goldtone make them. There is also a handfuil of small builders like Earnest, Soeres'y Guitars and a few others whose name I forget now. I'll post again if it comes back to me.

Between the Goldtone and the Blueridge, I think the Blueridge is by far the better one IMO. I have never played an Earnest or a Soeres'y so I can't comment.

My personal preference is for vintage guitars. You can get a Harmony or the sort for very cheap, couple hundred bucks. They're not great but they might be at least as good as contemporary budget guitars. If you know that you want to play tenor guitar, you could get a better Gibson or Martin for a little more and it will still be much less than an equivalent 6 string guitar. Even less than 4/6th of the price. Vintage Players Instruments in California really know about them and the owner, Lowell, actually is a tenor player. Other reputable shops like Elderly, Gruhn, Gryphon, Bernunzio, Intermountain and other often have some too.