Joe Pass recommendations?

[JZGuitarman]

In my never ending quest to find great Jazz Guitar players, I came across Joe Pass. That was 29 years ago. The record I listened to was “Virtuoso 1”. I did not like the acoustic guitar and his playing sounded so studied, stiff and rehearsed, not from the heart. Recently I gave him a try again, and listened to “Virtuoso 4”. I still had the same feeling. To me he sounds like Einstein writing in intricate formula on a blackboard: Very impressive calculations, probably briljant, but no soul. When I listen to him, I feel that he is doing his utmost to play every note he should, but doing so with pain and suffering. I’m almost happy for him when it’s over. I remember the cover of the “Virtuoso 1” LP, where he wiped the sweat of his forehead. That’s sort of how I feel after listening to that album. It’s not that I don’t like acoustic guitar Jazz, I love the way Charlie Byrd sounds, for instance. He sounds like his heart is into it.
I really want to give Joe Pass another chance. Does anybody have recommendations for a great album of him?
I do not mean to offend any fans, not at all. But your ideas and comments are appreciated.

[ESCC]

Couldn't agree less.

I've always thought that Joe Pass was a great talent with such a large vocabularly that he could select a tune and effortlessly play various arrangements, one as interesting as the other in his chord selection and single lines.

I suggest watching some live videos of him playing virtuoso, or listen to his multiple (4?) recordings of "They Can't Take that Away From Me" with an ear towards his different approach to each arrangement, I think you may open up to him a little.

[jmstritt]

Maybe you would find some of his duet work with Herb Ellis a little more accessible? They did an album called Two For the Road, that was pretty laid back and bluesy. That might be more your taste?

My knee jerk reaction would be to say, if you don't like Joe Pass... Listen to somebody else.

If you like guys that are more bluesy/soulfull, check out cats like Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel, George Benson, Howard Roberts, Herb Ellis, heck even Wes Montgomery.

Some of my favorites from that group...

Workout!, Hank Mobley (Grant Green on Guitar)
Organ Grinder Swing, Jimmy Smith (Kenny Burrell on Guitar)
Giblet Gravy, George Benson
HR is a Dirty Guitar Player, Howard Roberts
Full House, Wes Montgomery

If you really want to talk about Joe Pass we can all reccomend some great records, but in the end there isn't anything wrong if that just isn't your cup of tea.

As far as Joe Pass...

Virtuoso (I know, I know, but it is one of my favorites)
Virtuoso #2 (More of an amplified archtop sound and a kind of bluesy take on Joy Spring, also plays Grooveyard which you might dig)
The Trio, Oscar Peterson Joe Pass and Neils Henning Ornstead Pedersen
Chops! Joe Pass and NHOP

Just my two cents! Hopefully that might turn you on to a few new things!

[Jazzaluk]

Try JP's CD Unforgettable. If you don't hear any soul in that, then I guess you just don't like his playing.

You must remember the historical context of the Virtouso series. It was basically the first time a jazz guitar player attempted this type of solo performance. It was totally improvised. Joe didn't really study how to approach it, he basically just did it. As time went on, his solo voice became much more clear IMO. Unforgettable was his last effort and IMO his best in this style.

My favorite other JP albums are Appassionado and For Django.

[jmstritt]

+1 for Unforgettable!!!

[mattymel]

my alltime fave is one called "intercontinental"...its out of print, but its a great guitar trio record.

still he isnt on my list of most soulful players. agreed there.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by mattymel

my alltime fave is one called "intercontinental"...its out of print, but its a great guitar trio record.

I was going to recommend that one as well. It was my introduction to his work, probably around 1970 and still one of my favorite albums. It's a shame it's OP and the used copies are so expensive.
Brad

[The Poppster]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

+1 for Unforgettable!!!

+2 for Unforgetable!

Have you actually seen any video footage of Joe playing? For me, from the heart IS how he played! But each to his own I guess

Popps.

[JZGuitarman]

Thank you sincerely for your honest comments!

ESCC & The Poppster: I will check out JP videos. I have never seen him play.
Jmstritt: I will give the duet w. Herb Ellis a try. It may help to hear him in a different format.
Jazzaluk: I did not know that the “Virtuoso” series were all improvised. That explains a few things. I do appreciate that he is trying to play a complete tune (bass, melody and chords) all in one take. That is impressive, and that makes it almost inevitable that the end result will be a little tensed.
Mattymel & Brad4d8: I will try and see if I can find ‘Intercontinental’ somewhere. Maybe on MP3?

I do have “Unforgettable” – I played it about 10 times during my daily commute. But so far I did not “feel” it. I will not give up though.

I heard that he also played with Oscar Peterson and with Ella Fitzgerald. I would like to check those recordings out too. I really appreciate your feedback.

[hallpass]

Joe Pass is one of, if not my very favorite jazz guitarist. The "pass" in my screenname is for him. I view his catalog of material split up between 1) solo, chord/melody stuff and 2) band, non chord/melody material. Obviously stuff like the Virtuoso albums fall in category 1. But these days, I tend to listen to more of his stuff that falls in the 2nd category, specifically these albums that I'd recommend:

• Eximious
• Giants (w/ Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown)
• Chops
• Night Child (w/ Oscar Peterson on electric piano)
• A Tribute to my Friends (w/ Oscar Peterson)

[mr. beaumont]

I like Joe at his least technical.

The duets with ella, The record he made with JJ Johnson (name of which escapes me) another record who's name escapes me with Andre Previn and Ray Brown, his ellington tribute, George, Ira and Joe...that's the stuff I can listen to...

I can only handle so much solo guitar from Joe...there's a LOT going on there!

[JZGuitarman]

Martinopass - Thank you for breaking down Joe's work in sections that are easier to understand. I probably went for the difficult stuff right away without knowing. I apprecitae your album suggestions. I will check those out.

Mr.Beaumont - Thank you for your statement: "there is a lot going on here". That sounds a little more politically correct than my description. I think that is indeed my issue with Joe, I'm not ready yet for his high level of technique. I enjoy the journey of exploring Jazz Guitarists and learn more everytime. Your comments are very much appreciated!

[Flat]

If you like Brazilian music, bossa nova jazz flavors, you might like the excellent album: "Tudo Bem!" with Paulhino Da Costa. It's got the tune "Que Que Ha," which also made the Best of Joe Pass CD.

It's great, it swings, has a wonderful joyful feel--and some people might find it easier to digest than the Virtuoso stuff, imho. To me it has some of Charlie Byrd's wonderfully open accessibility.

http://www.amazon.com/Tudo-Bem-Joe-P...7242666&sr=8-1

[JZGuitarman]

Originally Posted by Flat

If you like Brazilian music, bossa nova jazz flavors, you might like the excellent album: "Tudo Bem!" with Paulhino Da Costa.

Oh! Excellent suggestion! I found the cd on Amazon through your link. Yeah, I love the pleasant uplifting relaxed sun filled sound of Brazillian guitar music. I may find a whole different Joe Pass here. Looking forward to it! Thank you so much.

[Socrates]

I agree that Virtuoso can be a bit hard going, although it has great moments. I think Joe refined his technique as his career progressed, and played much more tastefully on later recordings. At his best he is the best in my view.
I would recommend a live recording of a duo gig with Red Mitchell called "Finally". It's from 1992, and the presence of a good bassist allows Joe more scope for some great, unrushed chord and melody interplay without the need to fill every second with sound. The tone of the guitar is warmer than some of his other recordings too.
One warning: Red Mitchell decides to sing on the title track, it's not a good idea. Other than that I would say it's well worth the money.

[Sordello]

JZGuitarman:

I sure hear what you are saying! I have been a fan of jazz guitar for decades now. Some of my first LPs were Django Reinhardt, and Joe Pass.
But, my ears change, and my tastes change, and though I respect what Joe was able to do (and even saw him live in concert, as my jaw drop at just how effortless he made it look), I have become very tired of the ceaseless pyrotechnics in his playing. On too many albums, some of which, remarkably, people on this thread have recommended as examples of his less rigorous playing?????, the song takes back seat to the ego of showmanship.
At my age, jazz-shredding is just not my style.

If you want to give Joe another try, I would highly recommend Songs For Ellen. A solo guitar CD where Joe slows down and amazingly lets the songs come to the centre of the stage, not the speed-whizzing runs in between melody snippets.

For me though, beautiful 'soul-man-ship' in jazz guitar belongs to Kenny Burrell.

[JZGuitarman]

Socrates: “I would recommend a live recording of a duo gig with Red Mitchell called "Finally".
I will check that one out Socrates thanks for sharing!

Sordello: “If you want to give Joe another try, I would highly recommend Songs for Ellen. A solo guitar CD where Joe slows down and amazingly lets the songs come to the centre of the stage, not the speed-whizzing runs in between melody snippets.”

Sordello, thank you for your honest comments! Yeah for me taste, feel and inspiration always come before technique and textbook wisdom. I like it when players put their heart into their performance. (Metheny, Byrd) But I also agree with others that you do need at least some technical knowledge in order to be able to play from the heart.

“For me though, beautiful 'soul-man-ship' in jazz guitar belongs to Kenny Burrell.”

Totally agree! I have heard his records 30 years ago, but I never bought one. I think I’ll go check him out again.

[vittigo]

Hi, I've found soul and heart You are looking after in his duets with Ella. Maybe this is her influence but his comping is so sensitive to her voice - that i can hear over and over again.

Give them a try

[swampguide]

"For Django" is a good though it's not solo guitar. The group on that record is bass, drums and two guitars. I like "Unforgettable" too - it's a solo acoustic guitar recording.

[jtizzle]

Definitely check out Joy Spring. Some really great playing. Also good, is his duets with Ella Fitzgerald. There's about 4 albums with that material.

[nycjazzman]

I wish I could help you but Joe is my favorite guitarist of all time and I like all of his recordings.

[mike g]

As already mentioned by jtizzle "Joy Spring" is a must have. Also check out "Live at Donte's"

[raylinds]

LAst night I was listening to Ella Fitzgerald's "Fine and Mellow" album. I had forgotten that Joe played on that. He played beautifully on that album, some lovely ballads, and a few tunes that really swing, he did it all with remarkable taste.

[abdke99]

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

thats from Intercontinental, sound is amazing ,lil darling one of the reasons for me to start playing jazz guitar

all the best Kerim

[hallpass]

Just curious...does anyone else out there prefer Joe Pass's band playing as opposed to his solo guitar stuff?

[mattymel]

I also fondly remember "summer nights" where he is doing kind of a django tribute. But not really. Pisano plays all rhythm guitar though. Really great.

Also "virtuoso live" was my fave solo record. Less frantic and maybe his best tone (by JP standards).

[va3ux]

Originally Posted by martinopass

Just curious...does anyone else out there prefer Joe Pass's band playing as opposed to his solo guitar stuff?

Now that you mention it - I probably do.

I have similar sentiments toward Virtuoso as the OP does. Yet, I do like Joe Pass and several other JP albums.

[a22]

I always liked Virtuoso #3 a lot and think it's a rather easily approachable album, might want to give it a spin if you haven't

[JoshGuitar]

'Intercontinental' and 'For Django' are my favourites. Intercontinental still pops up on vinyl occasionally and unless Amazon is deceiving me, available for pre-order on CD. I always find Joe's solo playing far too frantic and lacks a mellow understated quality that I find in his trio playing.

There's a very nice album -'After Hours' with Joe Pass, Andre Previn and Ray Brown that is worth checking out.

That said I'd give any part of my body to play like Joe.

[Synchro]

I spent a long time doing my version of the Joe Pass solo thing and I used to listen to him all the time. My favorite of the solo recordings was Virtuoso #2. The Ella Fitzgerald recordings probably showed off his solo abilities to best advantage.

That having been said, after well over a decade of playing and listening to that style I went cold on it both as a playing style and as something to listen to. While I still greatly admire his playing and the tremendous chops he had for solo guitar I guess that I'm maxed on solo guitar because I can't so much as listen to it without getting bored.

Now, that having been said, there's a lot more to JP than solo guitar. The Red Mitchell album is great if you exclude Red's vocal on Darn That Dream.