Rank these players in your opinion

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by exarctly

"the way the OP was phrased, things could not have been set up to be more subjective and vague."

That was the idea. I wanted people to write about what they valued. I wanted to know what went in to other peoples concepts regarding evaluation and which players it led them to.

Secondly, I didn't mention the other guys because I have never really listened deeply to some of them, and some not at all. But maybe now I will in the future. I know a lot of guitarists, but I have not had time to get into every single player. My list was not meant to be insulting or omitting or encompassing of all possibilities.

Again, it is as if I asked people, I am curious if there are more fans of swiss cheese or provolone cheese and why. And everybody is getting upset because I didn't mention their favorite kind of cheese, as if my question implied that those were the only two kinds of cheese that are worth mentioning. Maybe I am just asking because I often debate with myself which kinds I like more and would rather use in a recipe. Maybe someone could help me figure it out. Guitar playing is similar. If I can better put my fingers on why certain players and ideas resonate with myself and others with similar tastes then I can perhaps get closer to learning how to implement it in my own playing - hopefully with my own sound and style.

"but then this is a geeter forum, and is thus not prone to submissions reflecting professional analytical rigor."

I'm sure you are a nice person, and I will assume you meant no harm but are just offering criticism, which I should be mature enough to handle, but I find this statement a little insulting. I am proud of most of what I write around here. This was more something I just wanted friendly opinions on without feeling like I had to be professional.

Please everyone...I meant no harm to you by leaving out your favorite players. The post wasn't intended to be all inclusive. I just wanted to see what was favored amongst players that I find interesting to compare.

i dont think that you understood my point at all. i was comparing a casual popularity list (which is all this is in the end) with the world of data analytics, decision analysis and the like. the two arent even close. maybe you can see that and not make it about you? so just have fun with your lists, thats all this is for.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by exarctly

This post is just for fun.

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

so just have fun with your lists, thats all this is for.

Good, then we agree.

I still think the OP laid it out pretty clearly.

[fumblefingers]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Good, then we agree.

I still think the OP laid it out pretty clearly.

thanks net Nanny.

[marcwhy]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

What are your fav Abercrombie records? I need to listen to more of his playing!

Any of the trio albums with Dan Wall (organ) and Adam Nussbaum (dr) to start with. I love Abercrombie's playing; I've seen him live a few times and he's blown me away.

He also has some great guitar duo albums, if you like guitar ...

Marc

[marcwhy]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Ok, I'm going to give it a shot!

I. Scofield, Rosenwinkel, Metheny, Abercrombie

II. Kreisberg, Rogers, Hekselman, Lund

III. Hall, Wes, Burrell, Green

Fine, I'll play, too.

I. Sco, Abercrombie, Metheny
- Rosenwinkel is my favorite for List II, so I'm cheating.


Marc

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

thanks net Nanny.

I prefer cyber-marm.

[Jake Hanlon]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I really love the recent stuff he's done with Mark Feldman. (Third Quartet, Wait till you see here)

Sargasso Sea (with Ralph Towner) is one of my favorite records of all time

I have a record called "Witchcraft" which is John doing standards in a duo format with Don Thompson...great stuff.

"Tactics" is a cool record

Another record I love John on is Enrico Rava's "The Plot."

As a massive Abercrombie fan, i'll offer a few favs.

The new Quartet is great if you like more atmospheric and Open jazz. There's a lot of collective and free improvisation but not "out" free playing, very melodic. 4 albums, all are great.

His Organ Trio period in the 90's outstanding... Speak of the Devil, While We Were Young and an organ trio with Kenny Wheeler, Lovano and Feldman called Open Land is one of his best albums. He has a new organ trio now that he plays with I don't know if he's planning to record with them but I want to know because the band individually are really happening.

Trio wise, the live album with Marc Johnson and Peter Erskine is a classic of course the Gateway Trio! His quartet with Richie Bierach and his work with Kenny Wheeler are my favorite albums (The Widow in the Window is my favorite album period).

If you want to hear him playing a lot of standards then you can find a torrent online for an album he recorded in Japan years ago which is called Straight Flight that is all standards (nardis, Sweet way, greater love etc)

He has some great duets with Ralph Towner as mentioned a masterpiece. His piano/Guitar duets with Andy Laverne I think are awesome.

Other interesting things to look for... he has a Solo DVD from a TV program in Canada that is outstanding and for the same program a duo concert with Greg Osby, awesome stuff.

I asked John what his favorite albums he did were and he said "November" (one of my fav because I love John Saurman) The Gateway Homecoming album and the Johnson/Erskine trio album. So I figure that's a good place to start.

Either that or his sidemen work on Kenny Wheeler's ECM records in the 80s

[Jazzpunk]

Thanks for all of the recommendations fellas!

[exarctly]

Did anyone mention that he did a record with Scofield. It has some nice guitar duets on it. If you just wanted to hear him play jazz as if two guys were just playing a few standards. And some of the tunes have a full rhythm section. The organ trio stuff I like a lot too as well as Open Land.

[mattymel]

i always liked the scofield record "what we do" best of all of his. lovano sounds great on it too.

[Jake Hanlon]

in all honesty I dislike the Scofield/Abercrombie record with the exception of the duets mostly because I don't think the rhythm section works very well on that album. I also dislike the Metheny/Scofield album because I just don't feel like it was a good mix in the studio. Live cuts that I've seen and heard were killing, sometime the studio can't capture the magic.

[exarctly]

I am with you on both of those points. But I still like the albums. I think that even with the weaknesses there is some very nice playing that shines though. And I just can't help but enjoy hearing one play right after the other. I think it is cool to hear. Though sometimes I think these type of records do not work because everybody is not as comfortable as they normally would be or are trying to make sure they do not step on anyones toes.

[Jake Hanlon]

Yeah I'm sure somewhere somehow there is ego involved even though from most accounts all of those guys are just class act humble guys who just want to make music. Sometimes these sorts of things are the concept of Record lables or producers, sometimes it works (like Joe Pass' solo albums weren't his idea) and sometimes it falls a little bit short. Not to say that those aren't worth wild albums to get at all. I think the Abercrombie/Scofield duet of Solar is a clinic on duo playing with two guitars, same with the Jim Hall/Pat Metheny Falling Grace duet. Lots of amazing little gems!

We're lucky as Guitarists because really not too many other instruments can play duets and cover all the bases with just the two of you, we learn that way I think the best and I play with all my students in every lesson as the major teaching tool. I learn so much from listening and playing duets with other Guitarists, every time we have someone come through here I make it a point to get a duet session in with them and it's allowed me to make a lot of silly dreams come true for my own satisfaction.

So when I see two guitarists put a project together it peeks my interest... if you might be interested (you as in anyone) in a great Guitar project... Scofield's Grace Under Pressure is with Bill Frissel and I happen to think that is one of the best Post Bop guitar quartet albums of that era of the music... Frissel especially I felt really brought the thunder \m/

[Jazzpunk]

I'm digging the Abercrombie Quartet recordings so far. Good stuff!

[cubistguitar]

Originally Posted by mattymel

i always liked the scofield record "what we do" best of all of his. lovano sounds great on it too.

Love this record too. I think this the one with " Mr. Coleman To You" , burnin guitar on that break. He and Lovano were awesome together.

The trio recordings of Motian, Lovano, and Frisell are some my favorite of all time.

I'll play

List 1: Scofield, don't care for the rest (Metheny is a big turn off, especially his no tone stuff)

List 2: Rosenwinkel, the clean note kids are not as hot as the experimenters from the 70s and 80s, that Kreisberg can phrase nice tho

List 3: Hall, Wes, Burrell, Green


Where is Frisell in all this list making?

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Alright, I'll try it too...

Metheny, abercrombie, rosenwinkel, sco.

I've stolen more from metheny than probably anyone...not that it always shows in my playing. It happens that this past week I've been on a big abercrombie kick, so I'm ranking him high.

Lund, Kriesberg, rogers, hekselman

This is really just based on my listening...I really like Lund's writing...JK's a monster too...I haven't listened to enough Gilad yet so it's not too fair for me to rank him.

Hall, Wes, Green, Burrell

Jim Hall is as good as it gets to me...Wes is great, but more limited...the. green burrell distinction is tough, but green made me want to play jazz, so he gets the nod.

Oh, and since some folks wanted to post their faves, I choose jimmy raney, ed bickert, ray crawford, bobby broom phillip catherine and boulou ferre.

This week.

Sorry, I'm a bit late for this thread, and I don't want to contribute to it except to ask, out of curiosity, can some one point me to even one Jim Hall recording that leaves Wes sounding "limited" by comparison?

[mr. beaumont]

I dunno if it makes wes sound limited (but I do get what that poster was getting at) but check out "undercurrent" with bill evans. If you can't hear how good jim hall really is on that record, well, then you can't hear

[mangotango]

Well, I looked at it along the lines of "If I saw CD's by these 4 players but could only afford 1, in what order would my purchasing preference run?"

SO

I. Metheny, Rosenwinkel, Scofield, Abercrombie

II. Kreisberg, the others equal

III. Burrell, Hall, Green, Montgomery.

In I, Rosenwinkel edges Sco because the albums are more consistent, Sco's product can be patchy between albums and even on the same disk.

In II, JK is a top guy, but I haven't listened to the others enough. Mea Culpa, and at least this thread will make me correct that.

III. Kenny Burrell is the man for me. Jim Hall occasionally a tad cerebral. Green....serious groove but sometimes unlistenable tone.
Montgomery.....Oh I know I should, but I just don't. I have several albums and a DVD, I've put in the time listening, God knows I've made the effort, but I just can't feel particularly excited, or enthusiastic, or indeed much of anything. Sorry and all, and I'm sitting here anticipating the abuse; but.....

[Kman]

I hesitate to rank because I know my tastes will change. All I can say is that I listen to Gilad the most lately.

[Pat Clare]

Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, Pat Martino, George Benson, Joe Pass ect...

For the younger guy's, How about Russel Malone? I find his natural guitar tone to be refreshing. So many of today's jazz guitarists are addicted to stomp boxes and as a result have clichéd and homogenous sounds that skew the potential of their playing.

[NSJ]

Originally Posted by Pat Clare

So many of today's jazz guitarists are addicted to stomp boxes and as a result have clichéd and homogenous sounds that skew the potential of their playing.

Can you elaborate what you mean? Or post any videos with specific examples? How much is too much? I think a moderate/tasteful amount of pedals (I have a reverb and delay pedal that I use to judiciously 'sweeten' and 'thicken' the tone a bit--still fundamentally clean, still neck pickup only) is just fine.

I mean, I think most cats are not THAT far removed from old-school "Plug and Play". This is still not a Rush concert.

[cjm]

Originally Posted by Pat Clare

Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, Pat Martino, George Benson, Joe Pass ect...

For the younger guy's, How about Russel Malone? I find his natural guitar tone to be refreshing. So many of today's jazz guitarists are addicted to stomp boxes and as a result have clichéd and homogenous sounds that skew the potential of their playing.

You may have opened a can of worms with that post...but I agree with you.

[Pat Clare]

Originally Posted by NSJ

Can you elaborate what you mean? Or post any videos with specific examples? How much is too much? I think a moderate/tasteful amount of pedals (I have a reverb and delay pedal that I use to judiciously 'sweeten' and 'thicken' the tone a bit--still fundamentally clean, still neck pickup only) is just fine.

I mean, I think most cats are not THAT far removed from old-school "Plug and Play". This is still not a Rush concert.

There really is no right answer, it's a matter of taste. I have tons of effect pedals that I don't use these days. For me, I'd rather not hear a overly wet sound when it come's to effects. I don't have a problem with people who use that sound, but for myself prefer to keep the natural sound of the guitar in the forefront. No direspect intended, just my opinion.

[wolflen]

benson..his studio work on CTI..

hall..with ron carter

Rod Fleeman..super tasty player..with karrin allyson..doing a joni mitchell tune "all i want"