Past or Present...which era are you living in?

Jazzpunk · #1 03-15-2011, 02:05 PM

Are you 'old school', 'new school' or a little bit of both?

I know there will be argument about players that some feel straddle the line between both eras but for simplicity's sake lets say:

Old School= Wes, Kessel, Ellis, etc
New School= Metheny, Kreisberg, Rosenwinkel, etc.

***EDIT: The first two poll options should be read as 'I mainly dig...' as that seems more accommodating.

paynow · #2 03-15-2011, 02:09 PM

As far as the era I live in, it's now. The music? I dig it all, though I definitely lean more towards old school. That's changing a bit these days as I try to broaden my musical horizons.

Jazzpunk · #3 03-15-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paynow

As far as the era I live in, it's now. The music? I dig it all, though I definitely lean more towards old school. That's changing a bit these days as I try to broaden my musical horizons.

Don't forget to vote! The options can be read 'I mainly dig...' if that helps.

paynow · #4 03-15-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Don't forget to vote!

Didn't notice that. Will do.

mr. beaumont · #5 03-15-2011, 03:21 PM

Definitely both...I love playing and arranging the oldies, but my writing is a bit more modern, I think...and I really love listening to the modern stuff...but i'? Not putting away my jimmy raney discs either!

BigDaddyLoveHandles · #6 03-15-2011, 03:28 PM

1960:

Jazzpunk · #7 03-15-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Definitely both...I love playing and arranging the oldies, but my writing is a bit more modern, I think...and I really love listening to the modern stuff...but i'? Not putting away my jimmy raney discs either!

I like your playing a lot Jeff!

Do you dig Doug Raney as well? 'Cuttin' Loose' and 'Introducing Doug Raney' are great albums imo.

markerhodes · #8 03-15-2011, 05:18 PM

I'm definitely in the old school camp. This week, I'm learning another Charlie Christian solo and working in the Mickey Baker book---doesn't get much more old school than that!
I grew up on rock / blues / metal. Nearly all the records I bought by people still alive, and a large percentage of them were under 30. I used to review records and sometimes received 30-50 records a month to sort through. One day I thought, "I never have time to listen to music I already like." So I quit reviewing records. I've never missed it. I'm sure there are lots of great players around now but I feel no urge to keep up. Learning the things I love that I can learn keeps me happy.

mr. beaumont · #9 03-15-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

I like your playing a lot Jeff!

Do you dig Doug Raney as well? 'Cuttin' Loose' and 'Introducing Doug Raney' are great albums imo.

Yes! Big fan of Doug. I absolutely love the stuff he did with chet baker.

Flyin' Brian · #10 03-15-2011, 07:16 PM

At 64 I've been around for a lot of music, starting with listening to my Dad's big band and "race" records when I was still in single digits. I'm a big Metheny, Kreisberg, Sco, Frisell etc fan, as well as Wes, Burrell, Johnny Smith and so on, so the long winded answer is both.

pierre richard · #11 03-15-2011, 07:17 PM

old school man old school...

wes...pass...roberts...farlow...ellis...kessell... bikert...byrd...smith...van eps...

time on the instrument man...pierre

wizard3739 · #12 03-15-2011, 07:43 PM

You may want to listen to some of Dougs' other cd releases. My Favorites are "Back In New York" and "You Go To My Head". Both are made up from old standards and are well done.

wiz

Jazzpunk · #13 03-15-2011, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizard3739

You may want to listen to some of his other cd releases. My Favorites are "Back In New York" and "You Go To My Head". Both are made up from old standards and are well done.

wiz

Thanks Wizard, I will definitely check those out!

wizard3739 · #14 03-15-2011, 07:57 PM

I voted for and enjoy both but definitely lean toward the old school, ie Jimmy Raney, Ed Bickert, Howard Roberts, George Van Eps, etc....

wiz

msr13 · #15 03-15-2011, 08:26 PM

I cross over quite a bit. I love the old standards, and I love how many of the newer players arrange and interpret them. I love Jesse van Ruller doing End of a Love Affair and Goodbye, Kreisberg doing Autumn in New York, Rosenwinkel doing You Go to My Head. Lionel Loueke doing Skylark and Benny's Tune. Etc. These new interpretations of these great songs really mix nostalgic with innovative. Great stuff.

fumblefingers · #16 03-15-2011, 10:30 PM

both:

i was on the 3rd row.

YouTube - ‪john mclaughlin, granada theater 112910, opening number‬&rlm;

2 nights later i was on the 4th row, at UCLA.

nado64 · #17 03-16-2011, 03:02 AM

Inspirate by the oldies for playing more comtempory.

Jimmy Raney fan, too. he has a vintage sound, but harmonically modern.
The album "touch of your lips" is my favorite of Chet.(w/NHOP and Doug Raney).

We don't talk enough about Marc Ribot.
He has a modern and versatile game , which isn't close to Metheny, Rosenwinkel,....

Banksia · #18 03-16-2011, 03:04 AM

I voted "both". I'm not even a "pure" jazz fan. 90% of what I listen to is jazz but I'm just as likely to play blues or rock.

Standards aren't standards because Miles played them. They survive because of the strength of the composition. I'm more likely to play "Aqualung" by Jethro Tull because it's a better composition than anything Ben Monder ever wrote.

A lot of "new school" players are in such a hurry to get to their altered-modally-inspired Berklee solos that they don't want to "waste" time writing the song first. Much as I like Rosenwinkel's playing, I can't remember the "tune" to any of his songs. In fairness, I think James Muller has written some good simple tunes which can stand on their own, without his solo.

Take a song like "Chank" by Scofield. Anyone from my generation can tell you that's just a stolen BarKays riff, yet Scofield gets a writer's credit for it.

fumblefingers · #19 03-16-2011, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banksia

I voted "both". I'm not even a "pure" jazz fan. 90% of what I listen to is jazz but I'm just as likely to play blues or rock.

Standards aren't standards because Miles played them. They survive because of the strength of the composition. I'm more likely to play "Aqualung" by Jethro Tull because it's a better composition than anything Ben Monder ever wrote.

A lot of "new school" players are in such a hurry to get to their altered-modally-inspired Berklee solos that they don't want to "waste" time writing the song first. Much as I like Rosenwinkel's playing, I can't remember the "tune" to any of his songs. In fairness, I think James Muller has written some good simple tunes which can stand on their own, without his solo.

Take a song like "Chank" by Scofield. Anyone from my generation can tell you that's just a stolen BarKays riff, yet Scofield gets a writer's credit for it.

"A lot of "new school" players are in such a hurry to get to their altered-modally-inspired Berklee solos..."

I think that's funny.

23skidoo · #20 03-16-2011, 07:04 AM

I think this dichotomy is a function of the 'time filter'..... the reason so much of the old school stuff sounds so good is that the OS stuff that was mediocre has fallen into obscurity - the chaff has already been separated from the wheat... it's just like any genre of music - the current crop includes all the guys that aren't interesting, one-hit wonders, derivative hacks, etc. Like someone said upthread, the music of this generation will be defined by the best players, especially if there is a defining, iconic individual. My kids will look back at the music recorded in the last decade or two and only see the best of what has survived the cut - the stuff that influenced people enough to get copied, consistently listened to, adapted into whatever is going to be going on twenty years from now.....

That being said - I like melody. I like 'beauty' in music - whatever that means to me - and think that music, or art in general, that isn't immediately accessible to an uninitiated public at a pretty basic level is doomed to niche-bound auto-cannabalism and eventual death due to inbred deficiencies in creative appeal. I think jazz could be heading that way if contemporary players can't figure something out.....to a certain extent, 'hard' jazz is already there - musicians playing for other musicians or for people who have developed an acquired taste..... the fine line between listenable and noise...... I dunno....

docbop · #21 03-16-2011, 07:36 AM

Jazz is about learning from the past, but playing on the cutting edge. So I dig both old and new.

spooni · #22 03-16-2011, 12:54 PM

Aaa! I have just wondered this thing by myself, and this came just in time!
Parker, Pass, Farlow & Raney - guys who have taught me the secret language of Bebop!

Wait!
Yesterday I found myself on Amazon.co.uk ordering four Methenys mindblowing records ( Still Life, Offramp, Bright Size Life and Trio Live)! Bit scary at first, but I realized that my ear has opened up to listen the music as a spoken language/phrases and I really found cool stuff in the way Metheny express himself as player. Not the same language as the Bobber-guys, but wery exciting! I´m not going to left my old profets, just going to widen up a bit of my vocabylary!

-Petri

oldane · #23 03-16-2011, 02:11 PM

Mostly old school - or should I say that my musical taste needs archeological excavations to be revealed? The last couple of years I have been practicing acoustic rhythm guitar a la Freddie Green which is actually great fun. Right now as I write this I am listening to 1939 recordings with Jack Teagardens Big Band with Allan Reuss on guitar (acoustic Gibson L5). BTW, Jack Teagarden is my favorite trombonist.

Jazzpunk · #24 03-16-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbop

Jazz is about learning from the past, but playing on the cutting edge.

Well said Doc!

Jazzpunk · #25 03-16-2011, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banksia

I voted "both". I'm not even a "pure" jazz fan. 90% of what I listen to is jazz but I'm just as likely to play blues or rock.

Standards aren't standards because Miles played them. They survive because of the strength of the composition. I'm more likely to play "Aqualung" by Jethro Tull because it's a better composition than anything Ben Monder ever wrote.

A lot of "new school" players are in such a hurry to get to their altered-modally-inspired Berklee solos that they don't want to "waste" time writing the song first. Much as I like Rosenwinkel's playing, I can't remember the "tune" to any of his songs. In fairness, I think James Muller has written some good simple tunes which can stand on their own, without his solo.

Take a song like "Chank" by Scofield. Anyone from my generation can tell you that's just a stolen BarKays riff, yet Scofield gets a writer's credit for it.

Comparing Ben Monder to Jethro Tull is pretty silly imo. I don't know anyone besides aging hippies who even listen to Jethro Tull. This doesn't diminish their talent or accomplishments in anyway but I don't see the value in pitting them against Ben Monder. Apples to oranges imo.

You say you voted 'both' but it's clear from your rant that you have a beef with the younger players on the scene. Who are the modern guys that you actually like?

paynow · #26 03-16-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Comparing Ben Monder to Jethro Tull is pretty silly imo. I don't know anyone besides aging hippies who even listen to Jethro Tull. This doesn't diminish their talent or accomplishments in anyway but I don't see the value in pitting them against Ben Monder. Apples to oranges imo.

You say you voted 'both' but it's clear from your rant that you have a beef with the younger players on the scene. Who are the modern guys that you actually like?

Whoa! I like Tull and while I'm middle-aging, I'm not a hippy.

I see your point, however. I love Monder, but to me he is a guitarist's guitarist, musician's musician, etc. If I was trying to turn someone on to jazz and we went to see a guitarist it would be someone like Burell, not Monder, Moreno, et al. I'd want it to be more accessible, and even then it would probably be an uphill battle. For me personally? I love those guys because I recognize they are trying to push boundaries, even if they don't write hummable ditties.

Jazzpunk · #27 03-16-2011, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paynow

Whoa! I like Tull and while I'm middle-aging, I'm not a hippy.

I see your point, however. I love Monder, but to me he is a guitarist's guitarist, musician's musician, etc. If I was trying to turn someone on to jazz and we went to see a guitarist it would be someone like Burell, not Monder, Moreno, et al. I'd want it to be more accessible, and even then it would probably be an uphill battle. For me personally? I love those guys because I recognize they are trying to push boundaries, even if they don't write hummable ditties.

Oh yeah, what's that tie dye mouse pad doing on your desk than?!

I agree with all of your points above. Burell was the player that lured me down the rabbit hole and while I've grown to appreciate a wide spectrum of artists, he still remains high on my list!

pingu · #28 03-16-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Whoa! I like Tull and while I'm middle-aging, I'm not a hippy.

Didn't they have a tune called 'Living in the past'

how apt

paynow · #29 03-16-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu

Didn't they have a tune called 'Living in the past'

how apt

So anyone who:

A. Likes anything from more than five minutes ago
B. Likes anything you don't like

Is living in the past? Interesting.

hot ford coupe · #30 03-16-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierre richard

old school man old school...

wes...pass...roberts...farlow...ellis...kessell... bikert...byrd...smith...van eps...

time on the instrument man...pierre

Amen on that one, bro. I may have been born in 1950 but I seem to be stuck somewhere from the 30's through a lot of the cool period of the 60's.

"A lot of "new school" players are in such a hurry to get to their altered-modally-inspired Berklee solos..." said fumblefingers.

This I feel is also very true. When I solo, I try to be as melodic as possible without being boring. The heavy altered stuff tends to get me agitated. Listen to Chet Baker, Clifford Brown, and a bunch of big band horn players. They tend to keep the solos great without all of the dissonance. Just my opinion.