Past or Present...which era are you living in?

[markerhodes]

Originally Posted by docbop

Jazz is about learning from the past, but playing on the cutting edge.

I'm not so sure of that. Jazz is enormous---a century old and world wide. It's too much to encapsulate in a single style. It's one thing if you are young and looking to make a name for yourself, but if you're playing mainly for your own enjoyment (-and maybe a gig now and then), then playing what you love best, even if older than you are, is, um, "a lovely way to spend an evening." Or a life, for that matter.

The "cutting edge" in music stopped being jazz about fifty years ago. The cutting edge is hip hop, I guess. They don't even *have* guitar players! )

[paynow]

Originally Posted by markerhodes

The "cutting edge" in music stopped being jazz about fifty years ago. The cutting edge is hip hop, I guess. They don't even *have* guitar players! )

Yeah, that's why I may switch to trombone. I need the work.

[hot ford coupe]

Nah, don't go to the trombone. There's no place to anchor the strings and that big loop on the end keeps sliding out of place.

[Banksia]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Comparing Ben Monder to Jethro Tull is pretty silly imo. I don't know anyone besides aging hippies who even listen to Jethro Tull. This doesn't diminish their talent or accomplishments in anyway but I don't see the value in pitting them against Ben Monder. Apples to oranges imo.

I recall that I was referring to their songwriting abilities, in which case my original statement stands.

You say you voted 'both' but it's clear from your rant that you have a beef with the younger players on the scene.

I don't have a beef with any younger players but I also don't live in some pure jazz "Field of Dreams" where, if they release it, I'll buy it. As a jazz lover and, as a consumer. I'm entitled to say, "That album doesn't do anything for me. I'm not going to buy it."

Who are the modern guys that you actually like?

From the last decade I own and enjoy lots of albums:
Rosenwinkel: Deep Song, Remedy, Standards Trio:Reflections
Kevin Eubanks: Zen Food
John 5:Remixploitation
Bobby Broom plays Monk
Maciek Grzywacz: Fourth Dimension
Mike Stern: Big Neighbourhood
Wayne Krantz: Krantz Carlock Lefevre
Robbie Ameen: Days in the Life - Krantz on gtr.
Buckethead: Slaughterhouse on the Prairie, Population Override
Frisell: History Mystery, Frisell/Carter/Motian, Further East/Further West
Gambale: Resident Alien, Made in Australia
Jimmy Herring: Lifeboat
Paul Gilbert: Silence followed by a deafening Roar
Rudresh Mahanthappa's Indo-Pak Coalition: Apti
Stanley Jordan: State of Nature
Frank Vignola: plays Gershwin
James Muller: Thrum, All Out
Kreisberg: South of Everywhere, New for Now
Stanley Clarke: The Toys of Men
Scofield: This meets that, En Route
Al Dimeola: Consequence of Chaos
Andy Timmons: Resolution
Chad Wackerman: Legs Eleven w/J Muller gtr
Dave Douglas and Bill Frisell: Strange Liberation
Corey Christiansen: Awakening
Matthias Ecklund: Freak Guitar - the Road less travelled
Los Dorados: Vientos del Norte
Prasanna: Be the Change
Will Bernard: Directions to my house.
Guthrie Govan: Erotic Cakes
Jim Campilongo: Heaven is creepy
Liberty Ellman: Ophiucus Butterfly
Russell Malone: Live at Jazz Standard
Jonas Hellborg: Kali's Son
Bumblefoot: Normal

Actually that's just the last 6 years and I've left out any new albums by over-60s (Holdsworth, McLaughlin. Not sure how old Scofield is.) and any reissues during that time.

...................

[Jazzpunk]

Excellent list Banksia, some great albums on there!

It was hard to tell why you voted for 'both' from your original post as your comments about the modern scene were fairly negative (with the exception of your comments about Muller). The post above paints a much better picture of where you are coming from.

Per the 'field of dreams' comment, I don't like every new album that comes out either though I do like a lot of modern jazz. Some that didn't make your list would be Brian Blade, Muthspiel, Chris Crocco, Adam Rogers, Chris Potter, Mike Moreno, Jesse Van Ruller and on and on. Way to many talented cats out there to mention!

Jethro Tull vs. Ben Monder is still apples to oranges to me but it's all good.

[oldane]

Originally Posted by pingu

Didn't they have a tune called 'Living in the past'

how apt

Oh yes. Have been living there myself for decades. Nice place to live. You should try it one of these days.

[sasquatch]

I'll go along with Banksia...it's all in the labelling
Ian Anderson's "Secret Language of Birds" is one of my recent faves

I've also got an issue with the 'Jazz Standards' syndrome...
When I went to audition for the Jazz Studies course at Sydney Con, I'd
rehearsed a xylophone & drum duet of a Zappa piece with our drummer
(I also play mallets)
The guy said " You can't play Zappa, that's not jazz!"
He then said "A xylophone's not a jazz instrument!"

So...it sorta left me with a bad impression of 'stick in the mud' jazzers
IMO Zappa wrote a bunch of great 'Jazz Standards'
Twenty Small Cigars and Blessed Relief are two that come to mind

I realised later I should've gone for the Orchestral Percussion course
The classical dudes seem much more hip than the jazzers (at Sydney con)

[teleman3726]

Old school - late 50's, early 60's hardbop.
Working through KB's Soul Call right now.

[Stackabones]

Probably more old school, back when songs were actually played and the melody wasn't buried or blurred by the soloist's ego.

[Jeremy Hillary Boob Ph.D]

I'm into 50's-60's... some early some contemporary too. Voted old school.

[franco6719]

I love Jethro Tull. I want to learn to play rock and roll. I'm getting tired of these standard tunes.

[franco6719]

Actually I voted for both. There are many outstanding players in the older generations and there are many outstanding players in the more recent generations. Compositionally, I don't hear anything nearly as beautiful or infinitely challenging as the old standards though! The players like Joe Diorio, Jim Hall or Mick Goodrick are the most interesting, IMO. Traditional jazz sound and ultra-modernism in ideas.

[markerhodes]

Man, I haven't thought about Jethro Tull in decades, but this thread reminds me of how many of their records I enjoyed as a kid: Aqualung, Thick As A Brick, Living In The Past, and I forget the names of the rest. Well, let's bungle in the jungle!

[jzucker]

to me, the whole idea of jazz is taking what's current and making grooved, improvised music around it.

I love what Tony Grey and Matt Garrison are doing. Wayne Krantz and Chris Potter too. However, there is much to learn from the old masters. I think it's worth revisiting the roots now and then (as I'm currently doing). I think it adds depth to your musicianship. To me, Wynton is the epitome of this.

[kris]

I like all good music...not only jazz.
old school..new school...roots...blues...etc

somebody told : "if you do not feel easy blues you will not understead jazz"

[TruthHertz]

Modern for all instruments including guitar. Old school for all instruments but guitar is very much in the minority.
David

[Larry Feldman]

Love modern, but always go back to standards. I go back and forth. Watching a Johnny Mercer PBS special as I type this. Man he was a genius composer.

[patskywriter]

i enjoy both traditional and contemporary jazz. i can appreciate a good melody and nice groove in just about any genre of music.

[Drumbler]

The old stuff for me.

[Reg]

I dig almost all music... last weekin I played a gig with a DJ, who played pre-recorded shit, an elect. keyboard bass... the big low stuff, a synth and a tpt. It was mainly all young people, very loud... hip-hop and trance etc... I had a blast... lots of groovin and shreddin,(I'm old school, burnnin). Audience was really into it,( I think there were influential factors...). Last night I played with gig with Big Band, Thursday I'm gigging with B-3 and Drums... almost all Wes tunes, (one of my favorites)... and Friday I'm playing an outdoor festival with my brothers... old school R&B, funk etc... as far as a listener... I can listen to jazz for ever. I can enjoy almost any music for a while... but usually get bored...

[Quendit]

I prefer old school,better than contemporany Jazz.
The sound of this old guitars are magic and the way that they played.
Today the musicians are looking more for virtousismus,and I don´t know exactly where is the limit or frontier between music and someone who plays very well guitar.I mean with a exceptional technics.
In all cases it must be feeling inside,because without feeling,there is no really music(That is my personal opinion).
Now I remember the song who had played so many people,called " Fly me to the moon".His old sound.!!!! Great.

[jster]

Can't vote. I'm living in the next era!

[ScottM]

I like the old school. Jimmy Raney was the first player who got my attention, when David baker played a Buddy Defranco record in my Evolution of the Jazz Combo class at IU.

Sometimes when I hear my playing, I think I belong to the school for the deaf!

-Scott

[Vihar]

I voted for contemporary jazz. It contains everything from all the music of the past, so I'm not worried about losing anything important. Music is a continuum like anything else, it has everything in it that's ever happened or going to happen.

[sc06yl]

I read a Pat Metheny (I think it was him) article slaying purism in jazz, I think he wrote it in response to Winton saying jazz is dead. I agree with whomever I am thinking of, however vaguely, that you can't be a purist and a 'jazz' musician at the same time - as soon as you limit your ears, your knowledge and start taking something as cannon law, it isn't jazz anymore, its more like classical art music. Jazz is spontaneous and open to interpretation. You should definitely learn all the vocab, bop, swing, etc. and if you love playing in those styles, do it. But don't play like its 1940 something! Play it like its today!

I voted for contemporary - because I was born in the 1980's and I feel I lack the context of the music created before then. I listen, I'll play it, but I won't pretend to play it like it was back then.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by jster

Can't vote. I'm living in the next era!

Good answer!

[nakim55]

Jazz stopped being the cutting edge music 50 years ago? The cutting edge is "RAP"? RAP might be the cutting edge in record sales, but I don't think a drum MACHINE is going to cut like ELVIN JONES, or DON MOYE.(Do drum machines have SOUL?). Personally I think Jazz has been really cuttin in the last 50 years, Mingus, Ornette, Cecil Taylor, Albert Ayler, The AACM, The 70's loft scene, the 80's & 90's downtown scene. If you think Jazz is dead just check out the Vandermark 5. A lot of great creative/innovative music out there today, you just have to look for it, because the music industry has not MARKETED it for 50 years!

[cjm]

I disagree with the basic premise behind the question.

It basically implies that the jazz of 50~60 years ago is exhausted of new creative opportunity and is therefore not "cutting edge" or much of anything beyond repetition and preservation of a dead language.

Instead, I maintain that there is as much opportunity for creativity and innovation within "old school" jazz as there ever was and that most of the impetus for "contemporary jazz" is a combination of peer pressure and rock sensibilities...not a truly creative impulse nor an exploration of the cutting edge.

Just my opinion, but there's no value in expressing an opinion unless the opinion is presented truthfully. The poll asked for preference and preference is based on opinion.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by cjm

I disagree with the basic premise behind the question.

It basically implies that the jazz of 50~60 years ago is exhausted of new creative opportunity and is therefore not "cutting edge" or much of anything beyond repetition and preservation of a dead language.

This poll is simply an opinion poll to gauge the listening tastes of the members here. It is not a condemnation of any style or era of jazz music.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by cjm

Instead, I maintain that there is as much opportunity for creativity and innovation within "old school" jazz as there ever was and that most of the impetus for "contemporary jazz" is a combination of peer pressure and rock sensibilities...not a truly creative impulse nor an exploration of the cutting edge.

I agree that there is plenty of room in old school jazz to be creative but your assessment of what fuels modern jazz is pretty absurd.

I can't think of a single relevant jazz artist out there in a modern vein who doesn't respect the masters and site them as influences. They simply choose to expand on the language and incorporate elements from the various styles of music that they have grown up with instead of pretending like they live in the 1950's.

Guys like Brad Mehldau are a great example of modern players with incredible technique and a masterful command of the jazz language and yet who are not afraid to cover a Radiohead song. Considering that the original masters were putting their twist on the popular tunes of their day, perhaps guys like Mehldau are more 'old school' than guys who simply mimic the sounds of the past.

I listen to Wes when I want to hear music that sounds like Wes and I listen to modern guys when I want to hear something modern. It's great as a jazz fan to have so much diversity imo.