Practical Standards Study Group Feb. 2012 "Autumn Leaves"

[fep]

Here we go:

Lead Sheet:

Autumn Leaves.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Backing Track at 115bpm

AUTUMN LEAVES_Render Compressed.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[fep]

I'm bringing Howard's post over from the song poll thread (another backing track and lead sheet):

Originally Posted by wizard3739

Maybe this will help, tytlfamily, the backing track is a BIAB realtracks version in a Bill Evans Trio Style. It has a 4 bar intro and 4 choruses in a ballad format.

Autumn Leaves_Render.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage <---backing track

Autumn Leaves.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage <---PDF lead sheet

wiz

[fep]

These threads have moved a bit towards 'Showcase' threads in the past few months.

I'm going to try to add a bit more 'Study Group' to these 'Study Group' threads. So, I would encourage folks to share their knowledge and approach to the song. Perhaps some discussion of your approach (arps, scales, around the melody etc.) And perhaps some discussion of what you discover as you go thru your steps to learn the tune... Just saying...

I'm going to list some things someone can do when learning a tune:

- Find some recordings by the masters that you like and listen a bunch of times
- Learn the melody in a few positions, a couple octaves, a few keys.
- Learn to sing the melody (and the words?)
- Learn the chords and practice comping, in a few places on the neck and a few keys
- Analyze the chord progression
- Come up with some scales and arps you like over the progression
- Transcribe a solo or part of a solo
- Jam over the progression
- Write down some licks you like that you discovered while doing some of the above steps
- Write a chord melody
- Write and intro and/or outro
- Record yourself playing the tune and share on this thread (Yes, we'll still showcase... of course)

and... I'm sure there's more that I can't think of.

If is some of us go thru some of those steps, I'm sure we'll come up with some good stuff to share.

[guitarify]

I'm glad this song won, since it's the only jazz tune I have attempted this process with. Haven't gotten too far with it since this whole process seems a bit daunting when you don't already have an arsenal of chords and scales at the ready.
However, I realize this is the best way to start having some of these chords and scales stick in my brain so I'm going to make a serious attempt at this.

There are about a million versions of this song out there, what are some good versions for a newb to reference? For learning the melody, should I find a vocal version? The instrumental versions seem to bury the melody in the improv. Should I start out transcribing the melody first?

I have lots more questions, but will start with those and I'm anxious to see what other methods people employ in this process.

[larryb]

Regarding chord selection, I know there is no easy answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway. When would you use the big fat Mickey Baker chords as opposed to using more open voicings or voicings using only the top 4 strings. Are there any general guidelines for using partial chords vs full chords, or is it just a matter of what you want to hear?

[markf]

Originally Posted by fep

:

- Find some recordings by the masters that you like and listen a bunch of times
- Learn the melody in a few positions, a couple octaves, a few keys.
- Learn to sing the melody (and the words?)
- Learn the chords and practice comping, in a few places on the neck and a few keys
- Analyze the chord progression
- Come up with some scales and arps you like over the progression
- Transcribe a solo or part of a solo
- Jam over the progression
- Write down some licks you like that you discovered while doing some of the above steps
- Write a chord melody
- Write and intro and/or outro
- Record yourself playing the tune and share on this thread (Yes, we'll still showcase... of course)

and... I'm sure there's more that I can't think of.

If is some of us go thru some of those steps, I'm sure we'll come up with some good stuff to share.

good, practical lesson right there.

[fep]

Originally Posted by guitarify

There are about a million versions of this song out there, what are some good versions for a newb to reference? For learning the melody, should I find a vocal version? The instrumental versions seem to bury the melody in the improv. Should I start out transcribing the melody first?

I can't think of a version... I'd be looking on Youtube for Miles and Jim Hall first, but those are just a couple of my favorites.

I'd learn the melody off of the lead sheet. Note that you can play around with the rhythm of the melody, it's not played exactly as written. That's why it's good to listen to a few other versions. Vocal versions are good and perhaps won't be as embellished.

But, if you want to multitask and combine learning the melody with some ear training, then go for transcribing it. Some folks feel if you learn the melody by ear you are much more likely to remember it.

[fep]

Originally Posted by larryb

Regarding chord selection, I know there is no easy answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway. When would you use the big fat Mickey Baker chords as opposed to using more open voicings or voicings using only the top 4 strings. Are there any general guidelines for using partial chords vs full chords, or is it just a matter of what you want to hear?

Yes there is no easy answer.

Things to consider... The instrumentation of the band, if you are the only chordal instrument you don't have to consider what the other piano/vibes/guitar is doing.

The effect you are after, compare Freddie Green to Jim Hall for instance.

I think the best way to answer this question is with critical listening.

Listen to the backing track I attached and the interaction between the piano and the guitar. In that track the guitar is playing on the down beats with fairly full chords and is playing a percussive style. The Piano is more sparse and playing fills and small chord voicings. That approach works well.

[fep]

My guitar teacher of several years ago gave me this assignment. To fill the gaps in the melody with arpeggios and write it out. So what you are about to watch is the result of that assignment. Not improvisation, this was from playing around with arpeggios, finding arpeggio lines that I liked and then writing them out.

Note the pdf file is attached at the bottom of this thread.

YouTube Video

Autumn Leaves Excercise - Arps with 3rd as Target Tone.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by fep

These threads have moved a bit towards 'Showcase' threads in the past few months.

I'm going to try to add a bit more 'Study Group' to these 'Study Group' threads. So, I would encourage folks to share their knowledge and approach to the song. Perhaps some discussion of your approach (arps, scales, around the melody etc.) And perhaps some discussion of what you discover as you go thru your steps to learn the tune... Just saying...

I'm going to list some things someone can do when learning a tune:

- Find some recordings by the masters that you like and listen a bunch of times
- Learn the melody in a few positions, a couple octaves, a few keys.
- Learn to sing the melody (and the words?)
- Learn the chords and practice comping, in a few places on the neck and a few keys
- Analyze the chord progression
- Come up with some scales and arps you like over the progression
- Transcribe a solo or part of a solo
- Jam over the progression
- Write down some licks you like that you discovered while doing some of the above steps
- Write a chord melody
- Write and intro and/or outro
- Record yourself playing the tune and share on this thread (Yes, we'll still showcase... of course)

and... I'm sure there's more that I can't think of.

If is some of us go thru some of those steps, I'm sure we'll come up with some good stuff to share.

This is a good idea Frank; what I learned most from in the early threads was suggestions of what to play/how to approach parts. Unfortunately, those suggestions sometimes cause heated exchanges. This is sad as I genuinely learn from ANY suggestions. A further impediment is the range of skills here. Some folks are easily pro level players; others are good hobbyists; others are beginners (to Jazz). I need Jazz 101 suggestions.

Thanks again for the efforts to keep these threads alive and kicking.

Des

[Kojo27]

Originally Posted by guitarify

There are about a million versions of this song out there, what are some good versions for a newb to reference? For learning the melody, should I find a vocal version? The instrumental versions seem to bury the melody in the improv. Should I start out transcribing the melody first?

I have lots more questions, but will start with those and I'm anxious to see what other methods people employ in this process.

Hi! This is one jazz standard I've known a long time - my mom used to sing it while I played with toy cars beneath her ironing board. She sang and ironed. It's one of the standards I can almost play, too : )

I never thought I'd be saying it, but the best "learning" version I know of is one released not long ago by (drum roll) Eric Clapton. He sings the melody exactly, and he plays the exact (or almost) melody on guitar. Later he improvises his ass off, but the first time is the bare melody. It's in B minor, but just listen a few times (or a few dozen times) and you'll pick it up. As Frank said, try to get it by ear first - then go to the page.

YouTube Video

[mr. beaumont]

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

YouTube Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVATl...0&feature=plcp

[fep]

Originally Posted by Dazz

This is a good idea Frank; what I learned most from in the early threads was suggestions of what to play/how to approach parts. Unfortunately, those suggestions sometimes cause heated exchanges. This is sad as I genuinely learn from ANY suggestions. A further impediment is the range of skills here. Some folks are easily pro level players; others are good hobbyists; others are beginners (to Jazz). I need Jazz 101 suggestions.

Thanks again for the efforts to keep these threads alive and kicking.

Des

Cool Dazz,

One thing I should mention... That list I made, you don't have to do every one of those things to learn a tune. Some of them I always do, but others, like transcribing, I don't do on every tune I learn.

I agree with you about including some Jazz 101 suggestions in the discussion. I can always review the foundation and it makes these threads more inclusive for various player levels.

[fep]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

Great lesson Jeff. Digging those open chord voicings and the gypsy flash too. Well explained and easy to follow too.

[wizard3739]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

This is a great video lesson, Jeff! I loved the way you referred to the chord/melody realationship as you were going through the song. This is a VERY practical and useful approach to learning a chord melody version of a song. Also, the open-string choices you made added a special acoustic quality with a nice personal touch to the song. Well done!!

wiz

[augusjazz]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

Excellent contribution.
I'll remember for the next take of this standard.
Thank you very much.

Meanwhile here I share a first version of this song.

DivShare File - AL1.mp3

[jayx123]

feb - great exercise. I used to do something similar to that
Mr b. - fantastic lesson - thanks for posting
augusjazz - nice job I liked that you refer to the melody in the first chords of the improve also those few outside phrases on the second and third chorus sound really cool.

[wizard3739]

I was hesitant to put up this version of Autumn Leaves because it is kind of noisy and I didn't do much analysis for the tune. The backing track is the one fep moved from another thread. It is BIAB realtracks Bill Evans trio ballad style with 4 choruses and a 4 bar intro. The first chorus is me trying to comp and the other three choruses are my improvisation with an 8 bar tag ending. My analysis would consist of thinking of the tune in E minor (Melodic Minor/natural minor) with arpeggios and motifs connected mostly by ear. I like this old tune but usually play it as a slow Bossa with a vocalist during the dinner hour. Any comments to help me improve the improvisation and comping would be sincerely appreciated.

Autumn Leaves improv.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

wiz

[tytlfamily]

OK, ready for some critique to see if I am on the right track. First of all, thanks to Fep, Mr. B for the great vids/ tutorials........been taking all the advice in this thread about how to learn a tune.

So, I decided on Wiz's BT, a bit slower, more time to think Mainly going for chord tones from arpeggios, but falling back on the ole' E minor pent/blues scale when I loose my place. Melody one time through, then some improv until you get the point on where I'm trying to go.


Fire away please!!!



Autum Leaves.mp3 - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[wizard3739]

nicely done, tytlfamily! nice tone, good choice of melodic lines, I could listen to you all night. thanks for sharing.

wiz

[tytlfamily]

Hey, thanks for the encouragement Wiz! Just finished listening to your version....excellent playing, you never seem to run out of ideas

Hey, that little app for the iPhone you recommended, the fretboard warrior, has been great. I think I am finally getting a handle on this fretboard thing.

Big difference when you can find the notes a lot quicker....imagine that

[larryb]

Thank you, Mr. B. This will keep me busy for the month. And even if I don't get it down in a month, I will have learned a lot along the way. Thanks for this.

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

[guitarify]

Originally Posted by fep

My guitar teacher of several years ago gave me this assignment. To fill the gaps in the melody with arpeggios and write it out. So what you are about to watch is the result of that assignment. Not improvisation, this was from playing around with arpeggios, finding arpeggio lines that I liked and then writing them out.

Note the pdf file is attached at the bottom of this thread.



Autumn Leaves Excercise - Arps with 3rd as Target Tone.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

Thanks FEP, this will be a useful approach for me as I am currently learning the arps for 2-5-1s.

[guitarify]

And Jeff, that was some cool stuff your doing. I think I need to beef up my chord vocabulary a bit more before I attempt something like that. But it was still really interesting to watch, and hopefully a few ideas crept into my sub consciousness.

[jckoto3]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'm pretty sure I've posted this on the site before, but I think this will work nicely in the discussion--essentially a dissection of a solo arrangement and a few thoughts about improvising on the structure...

Wow!! Great, great stuff right here! I know I'll be picking your brain here for quite a while on this. You've explained your ideas so succinctly that I dare say this is one of the best jazz-guitar related videos I've ever seen. I really mean that.

Just a note though, the second video seems to be deleted or missing -- the link doesn't seem to work as of when I post this message. Not that I'm complaining because the first video has *so* much great material, but I'm curious as to what is contained in that second vid :-)

[fep]

So I was experimenting with comping and wanted a recording so I could evaluate what it all sounds like. Which do you like best of examples 1, 2, 3, 4?

Suggestions, critiques etc. please.

I did this like this so I could share, and perhaps some of your might want to use this (note there is a pdf attached at the bottom of this post):

YouTube Video

[guitarify]

I like the turnaround in example 2. Though it's useful to see all the variations.

I just barely began figuring out the chords, and my first instinct was to find them around the middle of the fretboard. I mapped out the melody up there already, so I was looking for chords in the same area in hopes up eventually combining them into a chord-melody type arrangement.

Is there a reason you tended to stay mostly up at the end of the fretboard? Do those tones sit better with a band?

[fep]

Originally Posted by guitarify

Is there a reason you tended to stay mostly up at the end of the fretboard? Do those tones sit better with a band?

Good point... I suppose it comes from Mickey Baker and Freddie Green.

But comparing those examples on my video, I thought a lot of it was too muddy for me. Although the point was to be part of the rhythm section and not stand out or grab attention.

I thought example four sounded better as it wasn't muddy.

I suppose another way to reduce the mud is in the eq on the amp or tone control on the guitar (although I was at 10 on my guitar tone control).

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by jckoto3

Wow!! Great, great stuff right here! I know I'll be picking your brain here for quite a while on this. You've explained your ideas so succinctly that I dare say this is one of the best jazz-guitar related videos I've ever seen. I really mean that.

Just a note though, the second video seems to be deleted or missing -- the link doesn't seem to work as of when I post this message. Not that I'm complaining because the first video has *so* much great material, but I'm curious as to what is contained in that second vid :-)

Sorry about that! I added a direct link to the second video.

[augusjazz]

Originally Posted by jayx123

feb - great exercise. I used to do something similar to that
Mr b. - fantastic lesson - thanks for posting
augusjazz - nice job I liked that you refer to the melody in the first chords of the improve also those few outside phrases on the second and third chorus sound really cool.

Thank you very much for your comments, I'm glad you liked.

I liked the recordings tytlfamily wizard3739 and have a proper sound and good phrasing.
I'll try to make another record with the intent that is something a little better.