information overload, just want to play

[va3ux]

And after everything I've said - rationalizing the logic for my current path - I still harbor a small amount of guilt for not understanding the fundamentals. I'm a fake. Perhaps a music player, but not a musician.

I always get a twinge in my stomach when I see the some of thread titles here. " Hey guys - here's 12 more ways to play pentachromicacid arps over mixocryptodongian sus7thflat19 chords". Awww jeezuz - here's something else I should probably know but I can't figure out why I should know it and I know right now that I never will.

[AlsoRan]

It is always a relief when one can reveal the emperor has no clothes.

This thread has evoked and incited so many very personal thoughts in me.

The first is that fact that I had to admit I cannot accomplish the lofty goals that I was after with respect to Jazz. There is not enough time available for practice without sacrificing more important goals. Like all unrealized dreams, it can make one feel their mortality and yes I will say it, like a failure.

But like several of you, I am learning to substitute new goals that are attainable. Thank God for this thriving forum because it has helped me understand and flesh out realistic goals.

I made the mistake of spending the first 3 1/2 years focusing on single-note soloing to the exclusion of harmony. The funny thing is that most of what a guitarist does in most group settings is play harmony/accompaniment. I was closing the very door that would allow me to enjoy and share playing music with others as well as enjoy playing by myself (chord melody).

I thought I would be playing in Rock and Blues bars but I turned to Jazz after seeing too many raucous, drunken scenes that let me know a guy my age and in my profession should probably not involve himself with that scene. I might regress to my youth and that would not good for a guy with a wife and young children.

My pursuit of Jazz proficiency has recently brought me to this point. I have throttled completely back and have gotten an instructor to teach me harmony and comping skills. We are starting out with all the chords with roots on the 4th, 5th, and 6th strings. He wants me to know the function of every note (i.e) 3rd, 5th, flat 7th - not just shapes.

I am also learning a couple of scales and modes well enough to be able to do play them very well rather than learning four or five different scales and all their associated modes (or "grades" as he calls them). I just could not retain the latter, much less apply them.

As I learn to get these small pieces of the Jazz puzzle down THOROUGHLY, I will also apply what little application skills I already have as part of my practice schedule - especially some nice 2-5-1 soloing passages.

So in a year, I might finally have a very firm and powerful foundation so I can at least be able to play rhythm guitar very tastefully and even throw in a short solo every now and then.

The beauty of having a bunch of Jazz books is that I can use them to supplement my learning and maybe even teach the instructor a thing or two. BTW, he is a classically trained guitarist who has been in a couple of music observatories both in the U.S. and South America. He embraces music theory and is good with both finger and plectrum.

Alright.

I am going back into my woodshed. Bye and thanks for sharing!

[Asiancat]

reading such posts, I am starting to feel a sense of direction.. I'm so glad I joined this forum.

[max52]

Originally Posted by Dad3353

Good evening, Larry...

It seems that there's almost enough of us old duffers to start our own forum..! I'm in exactly the same position, at past 61, with the certainty that I shall never be able to absorb, much less execute, 5% of what's already on offer on this very site, let alone the books, DVD's etc... that I've accumulated. I'll probably never get to the end of Mickey Baker Vol I, despite working on it for 40 years..!
My ambitions have never been to play 'pro'; simply for my own pleasure. haThe best I've come across which fits my bill is the 60-odd chord melody pdf's downloadable from Matt Warnock's excellent site. Ive them in a binder, and will spend the next few years (that's to say, while I still can...) going through them, one at a time, as the fancy takes me. I have no interest in the esoteric debates on double ##'s, or tonewood, or classical fingering, I just throw my fingers at the strings and enjoy being lucky sometimes.
Play what inspires you, as best as you can and enjoy it. It's too late to start thinking of how to pull chicks with your melodic minor or economy picking. For my part, I leave that to the young (not that I have the choice...).
You're definitely not alone.

I haven't been able to find these, but would like to. Where on the site can I find these chord melody pdf's ?...thanks

[digger]

Good thread! I like the sentiments and I feel relieved there are more folks like me out there!

[Dazz]

wow!! all you old geezers are just like me; this has cheered me up a lot folks! I played guitar very very badly as a teenager and listened to jazz a lot but only played bits of crap (very badly). Then as a middle aged man, I was walking past a guitar shop and suddenly realised, I could buy a guitar and try again and buy any books or DVDs I wanted. I bought the second cheapest guitar in the shop and tries to teach myself jazz guitar. That failed. I was in my early forties with no ear, no reading ability and no hope. I am also dyspraxic (clumsy) which does not help. Anyway, I took lessons and play every day. I can read (very) slowly, know 200 chords, 30 tunes, a few scales and can kind of play a few bits and pieces. What I need most are other people to play with .... suddenly that is hard to organise. I am now 52. What do I learn most from?: playing tunes (melodies, chords, improvising over the chords); the practical standards sub group is great for making me learn tunes I would not have tried; transcribing stuff (with a lot of software help). I am still shite but I can get a kick out of it.

I also DO enjoy bits of theory. The ideal is to figure something out and then realise how it fits in some piece of theory so I can give it a name and remember it.

Des from Dublin

[Distort]

57 years old hobbiest player here

after 40 years of rock, blues, folk, I got bored and entered the world of Jazz about 2 years ago.

it took me quite some time to find a teacher that isn't focused on theory 1st..

What I expect from a teacher is to help me learn how to play a specific jazz tune and when I ask "why or how".... be prepared to teach me the needed theory.

I'm very adverse to the need to all the varying theory behind knowing the importance of every note, scale, in every key, etc... before being able to play.

Will my way of learning take longer?? maybe..... or maybe not

In the end, it's my $$ that is paying for the lesson.

:-)

Dave

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by Distort

I'm very adverse to the need to all the varying theory behind knowing the importance of every note, scale, in every key, etc... before being able to play.

Will my way of learning take longer?? maybe..... or maybe not

I think that you should be pursuing both. Playing is always important, but having at least a basic foundation in chord scale theory is quite important as well. You do not need to delve to deep to get an understanding of intervallic relationships, how to build chords and modes and their relationship to what you are playing. Having a map and being able to understand how and why you got where you are in a tune, is the key to understanding what you are playing. After a while you start to see how all tunes are related.

You need not spend money on a teacher to learn the basics of theory. Having a teacher being prepared to teach you the necessary theory when needed is fine, but remember the same theory is needed for every tune if you want to know what is going on, and not just memorize a series of changes. There are many sites on the web, like the one in my signature, Matt Warnock Guitar. His site has over 100 free lessons. If you go to the jazz guitar resources you will find scales, chords and modes that would keep you busy for many months is you choose. Our forum is full of information as well.

In the end it all comes down to what you want to get out of your experience with music. There are many of us here over 50, so it is never to late.

Good luck.

[Jim8208]

This is a great thread and I'm glad I happened onto it. I'm 61 and it's like I know you all personally. I'm experiencing almost the same as the rest of you with my playing. I've been playing a very long time but still feel like I've only scratched the surface. Learning more is a good thing but there's got to be a point where you simply just start playing music.

[pierre richard]

It all comes down to...

Time spent on the instrument....

Pierre......

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by max52

I haven't been able to find these, but would like to. Where on the site can I find these chord melody pdf's ?...thanks

Sorry for the late reply, I seem to have missed this.
It seems that Matt has re-arranged his site of late, and I can no longer see the pdf's referred to, either. I think you'll have to email him directly (his 'mail is on the site...) to ask. Obviously I can't put these out myself, as they're Matt's hard work. Contact him, the pdf's are very worthwhile, imho, and see what he proposes..?
Hope this helps...