Charlie parker 2-5-1 example Diminished scale

[Vladan]

HI,
I received free lesson including am example.
Now I have to clarify something.

It says: "Bar 2: the first 4 notes of bar 2 form an Ab diminished arpeggio."
To give some cotext, in preceeding example, "walking bass", says:
"On beats 2 and 4, play a note that approaches the root that is about to follow from one fret up or down."

I guess both above are correct, but I think they imply two different approaches for the same thing which can confuse beginer, like I am, one these exaples are aimed to.

In my way of thinking, due said diminished arpegio (BDFAb) is palyed over G7 (GBDF), and in context of advice about making walking bass lines,
I'd say first 4 notes of bar 2 form a part of G7 arpegio (g ommited),
with G# used as approach note to G.

On the other hand, more explanations may help produce diversity in playing, give options ...

Is there any particular reason for explaining things this way?

[brwnhornet59]

I find that explanation is a little esoteric , but my take is that there are several principles going on here. The use of "enclosures' is a common vehicle in voice leading as well as extending a line.

The use of dim over a V chord off of it's 3rd, is very common as well. I do not look at it as B or Ab Dim. I look at it as a rootless G7b9. They are enharmonic equivalents.

Combining these two ideas gives you the vehicle to approach the target note G, from a descending line, that has function as well as interest. This idea can be used in reverse, IE: you can approach the G from below as well using an enclosure to resolve. This time you would reverse the enclosure, Ab F# G. You would also use an F dim line, (E7b9).

There are many ways of implying ideas for this purpose. There are also other combinations that can be used to set up idiomatic lines that create interest. Modal interchange becomes very apparent, and much sought after, when we start looking at these combined ideas. You can apply similar combinations in other non ii V I chord progressions, which takes you to a new lesson.

Studying ii V I resolutions is a never ending search, at least for me, in the journey of playing this wonderful genre.

[Vladan]

thank you for the answer. I do not fully understand it, but I can see we are on about same line. You also look at that set of notes related to chord being played at the moment. G7 in this example.

You say if played one way use Ab dim, if played another use Fdim. Arn't they actually same chord, same 4 notes?

How do you name chords within one tune (chorus)? Based on basic key, or ...

I tend to give names based on bass note I'd like to hear at that moment. I do not mean note from a line played by Upright Bass or Bass guitar, although they may be the same, but more kind of counterpoint melody a bowed instrument could play in wholes and halves.

[brwnhornet59]

Yes Ab B D F, are all part of the dim sound. It is their origin that I look differently at, that's all. Ab to me in this situation is really a rootless G7b9, B is a rootless Bb7b9, D is a rootless Db7b9 and F is a rootless E7b9.

This idea became rampant in bop and beyond. Seeing the symmetry of the 4 tonal centers that are within the 4 tones of an Ab dim arp, each being a minor 3rd apart, is a very powerful idea. This is where one usage of modal interchange comes in. Since all 4 tonal centers, (C, Eb, Gb, A), are inner related, being part of a symmetrical scale, the octave is divided in 1/4's, you can inter change chords using the ii from Eb against the V from A and resolve into C. Or you can borrow chords from any of those other keys, and their relative minors, and reharm a tune or use it when writing.

Another great way to use this is to imply the different key centers in your soloing without the chords actually being played. So over ii V I in C, you can imply any of those other keys individually or in combination and it will mesh, some better than others. It takes a while to get it into your ears. Keep the outside lines over the ii V and resolve into C. Give it a shot.

You will also notice that the tritone sub is included in that grouping. The tritone sub of G7 is Db7, (Gb). The tritone sub of D-7 is Ab-7, (Gb), etc...


Yes I will name chords by their root, but I always look at where they came from and where they are going. This is how I determine it's function, therefore what I am naming it at that given moment. Chords have more than one or two origins or meanings.

Take the ideas and have fun!

[Sphere]

An approach note is a melodic device, not harmonic. Since the G note is not played, G# can't be leading to it, or approaching it.
In diminished arpeggio in the example the only note different from G7 is G# (or Ab), the b9. It's a very common be-bop device over a dominant chord. Pretty simple, no need to over-complicate it.