[Guitar] NEED HELP, ADVICE, TIPS

[Sodows]

Im starting to get frustrated with guitar!!!
I feel as if ill never progress to the next LEVEL!!!

How do you play fast smooth line like this for example:

‪Tritone Substitution/Passing Chords (now www.TrueGuitarist.com)‬‏ - YouTube

Can you give me excersises and techniques that any of you use to create the jazz sound?

I just want to get the basics so then I would be able to morph it into my own.

I like styles like:

-Pat Martino
-George Benson &
-Kenny Burell

[brwnhornet59]

Hey, Join the club.

That dude has a great alternate picking style. That is a place to start. How is your right hand technique? Are you clean?

2nd, he is mixing lines with the progression. Here his phrasing? How well do you know you scales and arps? Are you breaking down the chords and playing the changes?

Also hear how he is ascending then descending in a symmetrical way? ie, same notes with same ryhthmic patterns? He also mixed blues scale in there towards the end. I only listened to his opening playing.

It's not about one scale or one technique. It's how he is putting them all together. Where are you at with your playing? I would not worry about the speed, until you can mix and match the lines.

Hope that was helpful.

[brwnhornet59]

http://www.mattwarnockguitar.com/cat...itar-technique



Also, go into Matt's site and really poke around. He talks about many of the issue's that you and I have to deal with all of the time.

[Reg]

Get a better source to learn jazz from... that was not a jazz player...

[Sodows]

Im fairly intermediate, like i can play most songs.

my right and left hand are in sync until a certain tempo... I still struggle in sweep picking... i cant play certain licks up to tempo like this one lick:


Pat Martino and John Scofield on "Sunny"

I transcribed this from J. Scofield
Here is him playing that lick at 5:48-5:54:

‪Pat Martino & John Scofield - "Sunny"‬‏ - YouTube

Its really quick... and i cant get up to that speed EVER.


I could probably play some of the 8th note lines that Pat plays in that song but i would probably get A LOT of string buzz... b/c of my hands no being in sync at that tempo

[brwnhornet59]

Dude, you will never be able to play that stuff at tempo until you can play it SLOWWW. The best thing to do is work with a metronome. Only play the easier lines until you get them at speed. Then you can work on the harder ones.

How do you hold your pick? Is it a thick or thin one? What gauge strings are you playing on? How is the action? Everyone deals with this crap. You are not alone. BTW, I liked the guys playing on the first video you posted. I am not quite sure why Reg did not. He will have to answer that one.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Dude, you will never be able to play that stuff at tempo until you can play it SLOWWW.

As ridiculously slow as you can set your metronome to. You must learn to hear the value and place of each note in the context of the longer phrase. Someone on the forum posted Hal Galper's masterclass on playing lines and phrases. Check that out. Be able to hear the line and know it in you ears before you have it in your hands.

... and all the other things the other guys said too.
David

Think of it like going to a foreign movie (the kind where they talk fast and you have to read subtitles for all you're worth) you say "I love the way Spanish (French/Japanese/Farsee) sounds. What's the trick?"

[Sodows]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Dude, you will never be able to play that stuff at tempo until you can play it SLOWWW. The best thing to do is work with a metronome. Only play the easier lines until you get them at speed. Then you can work on the harder ones.

How do you hold your pick? Is it a thick or thin one? What gauge strings are you playing on? How is the action? Everyone deals with this crap. You are not alone. BTW, I liked the guys playing on the first video you posted. I am not quite sure why Reg did not. He will have to answer that one.

My gear
========================
-A Cherry Red Epiphone SG Special
-Peavy Vypr Amp (I sould have gotten a Line 6... my amp doesnt sound to good...)
-Pick: Its thick buy not THAT thick... You can bend it and when you play with it you get a somewhat warm tone... No, its not one of those small jazz picks

and my fingers: Nails Cut... on both hands....

My Guitar
========================
Strings: DUNLOP 9 Guage(Light) Nickle Wound
Action Height: On the 1st fret its about 1 penny high | On the 22nd fret its about 2 pennies high(since its closer to the bridge)

Holding My Pick
=========================
I hold my pick in the standard fashion

The pick is inbetween the 1st and 2nd joints of my index finger
And thumb lays over pick(not much pick shows)
Pick aims at sting at a 45 degree angle creating a warmer tone


Other
==================
I do practice with a metronome.... I start at 60bpm and increment by 5bpm each minute...

I transcibed this guys solo(can play it up to tempo) till 0:49

[brwnhornet59]

You can make a quick video so we can see the issues. Perhaps this will make it easier for us to help you.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Sodows

Can you give me excersises and techniques that any of you use to create the jazz sound?

Do you want to play jazz or do you want a jazz sound?
If you want both, you'll need patience. No short cuts. Certainly none that you'd get from only copying someone else notes without recreating their thought process.

If you want to play jazz, take a medium or slow tune and use straight eighth notes to create a solo that uses single note, arpeggiation, approach notes, passing notes, rhythmic displacement, some motific development. I'm not busting your bubble here, but can you do this? Each idea helps complete the picture.
Work on this and the things you hear will get sharper, what you can do will get many times easier, and you will recognize lines by ear.

Now if you just want a jazz sound, then please forgive my ranting and forget the above advice. The easiest way to just get that sound is to do nothing but take that one phrase, learn it one piece at a time, not necessarily in that order. Learn the last 5 seconds as a phrase by itself, the 10 seconds before that. Play the first phrase and add 3 notes the next day.
Live with it day and night until that is your entire universe. You will master it. I assure you.

It's a really nice phrase by the way.
David

[Sodows]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

You can make a quick video so we can see the issues. Perhaps this will make it easier for us to help you.

‪AccessVII's webcam video August 15, 2011 07:35 PM‬‏ - YouTube

[Sodows]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Do you want to play jazz or do you want a jazz sound?
If you want both, you'll need patience. No short cuts. Certainly none that you'd get from only copying someone else notes without recreating their thought process.

If you want to play jazz, take a medium or slow tune and use straight eighth notes to create a solo that uses single note, arpeggiation, approach notes, passing notes, rhythmic displacement, some motific development. I'm not busting your bubble here, but can you do this? Each idea helps complete the picture.
Work on this and the things you hear will get sharper, what you can do will get many times easier, and you will recognize lines by ear.

Now if you just want a jazz sound, then please forgive my ranting and forget the above advice. The easiest way to just get that sound is to do nothing but take that one phrase, learn it one piece at a time, not necessarily in that order. Learn the last 5 seconds as a phrase by itself, the 10 seconds before that. Play the first phrase and add 3 notes the next day.
Live with it day and night until that is your entire universe. You will master it. I assure you.

It's a really nice phrase by the way.
David

I actually mean both... THANKS! I was trying to achieve a goal this summer... My goal was to become one of the best guitarist in the school since all the good guitarist left(The seniors graduated....)

So theres only a few people better than me and i want to stand on top... and jam with them...

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by Sodows

So theres only a few people better than me and i want to stand on top... and jam with them...

Aha! I'm so glad you made that clear. Well might I suggest that maybe spending your time learning to listen and respond to what's going on might be a good use of your time. Fancy lines and licks are fine in their own right, but playing things that maintain the groove of the other plays, comping that makes them sound good, mastering the art of subtly controlling the energy, developing a vocabulary so when you hear something along those lines, you can actually learn from your bandmates on the fly... these could be a really great way to strengthen the give and take that makes real jazz happen. Don't be afraid to leave your comfort zone. Learn to learn from experience. You'll come to be the best in time.

To this end, and in the interest in immersion in the music, take some recordings from all eras, Blue Note Red Garland with Coltrane, Wynton Kelly, Miles with Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Ed Bikert, the people you like too... put the recordings on and just play along as best you can. "Sit in" with the band, do their kind of rhythm things. Try to imagine being them. See what comes out of that.
David

[brwnhornet59]

Hi Sodows. I couldn't agree with Truth more. There is much merit to what he is saying. Also after listening to your video I can say this. Keep practicing with the metronome. Develop these lines at very slow tempo's until they sound spot on. This isn't just about playing the notes perfectly. It is about the ambiance of the groove.

I would also suggest that you practice rhythmic devices in isolated movements. Start with the usual 1/4 and 1/8 note exercises. But also practice triplets in 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16. Mix them up and nail it.Then try using 1/4 and 1/8 note rests. Set the line up so that you are playing 4-8 measures using them, then displace the rest to another area of the phrase. This is great training to coordinate both hands, as well as developing more unusual and interesting ideas both rhythmically and melodically.

Also your right hand seemed to me that it was making some large movements. This is counter productive to speed and accuracy. Concentrate on tight concise movement. Staying relaxed is the key. I hope this helps.

Good luck. Any other questions will be answered by one of the great guys haunting this forum.

[pickguard]

(brwnhornet59 )said it best buy a metronome and practice with it. Start slow do not advance till you can play with out any errors. Otherwise you'll just be practicing errors. And don't try to learn it all in a week.

[TruthHertz]

Originally Posted by pickguard

(brwnhornet59 )said it best buy a metronome and practice with it. Start slow do not advance till you can play with out any errors. Otherwise you'll just be practicing errors. And don't try to learn it all in a week.

You said you start with about 60? WAY too fast. You put it WAY down and test yourself to see if you can still keep a clean beat with it beating 2 and 4 at the slowest setting. Can you make up lines that sound great, fill the space, go somewhere and swing at ULTRA LARGO? If you want to get good, better than anyone else, this is where it will happen, in the low slow zone.

Also, do you set the gnome to play on 2 and 4? This is important. It makes things swing.
I'll tell you a funny story. Guitarist/teacher Mick Goodrick was playing in Italy and giving a clinic. Someone asked the secret of a good sense of swing and space, and he said "metronome, set on 2 and 4" and he proceeded to pick a tempo with the click on the 2nd and 4th beats sounded, and play to the implied 1 and 3. You'll know how this swings if you do this. Well afterwords the room emptied out and there was this one guy that approached Mick. "Mr. Goodrick, where do you get your metronome from?" to which Mick answers "It's just a plain old basic metronome, nothing special" and the kid says "No, yours plays on 2 and 4, the one I have only plays 1 and 3."
I love that story.
David

[Reg]

Perfect video, would like to have seen a little comping....
You should start your technical studies by cleaning up your picking.
Start by being able to pick downbeats with downstrokes and upbeats with upstrokes... all subdivisions .
Once you have picking together, start using with two octave studies in positions with...
Scales, Maj. (nat.Min.), Melodic Min. then Harmonic Min etc...
Arpeggios same order
There are tons of patterns to use with each scale and arpeggio.
Here's two short Videos I made for technical studies...
Check them out and ask questions

YouTube Video

YouTube Video