Practical Standards Group "Cry Me A River"

[wizard3739]

Mr B: Is this ok for a "heads-up" for your new sticky thread?


Ok all, anticipating the poll winner will be "Cry Me A River", the links below are:

1) a pdf lead sheet Cry Me A River.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

2) a realtracks BIAB backing track in a Bill Evans Trio style. This is for 4 choruses, a 4 bar intro and a 4 bar tag ending. Just for fun, when you use this a a backing file, imagine yourself to be in a small club playing dinner music. Have fun! http://www.box.net/shared/m81zi6mvu8r41lc55qe3

wiz

[fep]

Here is a chord analysis.

The chord progression is the same as the one in the Real Book III. The Roman Numerals above the staff analyze every chord. The Roman Numerals below the staff are a simplified analysis (my guitar teacher use to say, "Think simple, play fancy).

Let me know if I made any mistakes or if you would analyze this differently. Do you have any insights? I'm hoping we can have a discussion on this.

Note, I did this with the free notation software 'MuseScore'. I'm very pleased with this software.




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Here's a link to a .pdf of that analysis:

http://www.box.net/shared/e6ta0q824tl9vkk2d84k

[wizard3739]

Hey Frank, good analysis! I need to start using musescore. My feeble analysis and my ear tells me the song is mostly in c minor so when I improvise on it I try to play around with the melody and use some minor sounds/arps.

wiz

[fep]

Originally Posted by wizard3739

Hey Frank, good analysis! I need to start using musescore. My feeble analysis and my ear tells me the song is mostly in c minor so when I improvise on it I try to play around with the melody and use some minor sounds/arps.

wiz

I think the key is in the ear of the beholder. What I sometimes do is just sing some scales and see where it resolves to in my ear. Those first two measures sure sound like Cm is the key, but the last measures of the 'A' section sure sound like Eb.

Oops I see a mistake on my part, I was thinking A7#9 on the first measure of the 5th system but it's a Ab7#9, a tritone sub of the D7 chord or a bII7/G7 approach chord, either way it's a dominant function to the G& chord. I'll fix that later.

Edit, Corrections have been made in previous post.

[markf]

The chord progression is the same as the one in the Real Book III. The Roman Numerals above the staff analyze every chord. The Roman Numerals below the staff are a simplified analysis (my guitar teacher use to say, "Think simple, play fancy).

Let me know if I made any mistakes or if you would analyze this differently. Do you have any insights? I'm hoping we can have a discussion on this.

Note, I did this with the free notation software 'MuseScore'. I'm very pleased with this software.

nicely done, going to check that program

[TruthHertz]

Little known fact that this song has origins that run back to the late Romantic era and Peter Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky embarked on a programatic piece describing a battle that would later become his famous 1812 overture.
In its early incarnations though, it was a more modest work, and early versions in song form describe a military conflict called the Crimean war. It took place along a river of the same name. The piece was called Crimea River.
David

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by TruthHertz

Little known fact that this song has origins that run back to the late Romantic era and Peter Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky embarked on a programatic piece describing a battle that would later become his famous 1812 overture.
In its early incarnations though, it was a more modest work, and early versions in song form describe a military conflict called the Crimean war. It took place along a river of the same name. The piece was called Crimea River.
David

ho ho; very
good!

[sgreb]

Thought I'd share this unique version.

YouTube Video

[Jazzaluk]

Nice! Classic Beck. It reminds me of his Roy Buchanan tribute on Blow by Blow album. (forget the track ... maybe "once we ended as lovers" ??). I would have been a great tune for Buchanan.

[markf]

sgreb


JEff BECK
Thought I'd share this unique version.

oh, beautiful, thanks.

any music going on in victoria? I am headed there next week., or better, get together for some playing?

[richard vandyne]

fep thanks for the download- i can really get into this one11!!!!!!!!!!

[fep]

Originally Posted by richard vandyne

fep thanks for the download- i can really get into this one11!!!!!!!!!!

cool, glad you can use it

[morroben]

Thanks for the analysis Fep. Is it okay to ask a few newbie questions? Could you explain the V/V, V/VI and V/II in your "simplified" line?
Also, when I hear people talking about "playing the changes", would sticking to that simplified line be okay? It seems that changing scales with every single chord on the top line would be awfully complicated, at least for someone like me.
FWIW, I'm doing better learning this one than I have with the previous 2 tunes. I'm more familiar with the tune and at least I have the melody under my fingers.
Thanks again...

[renato13]

Jazzaluk, the song was 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers

[fep]

Originally Posted by morroben

Thanks for the analysis Fep. Is it okay to ask a few newbie questions? Could you explain the V/V, V/VI and V/II in your "simplified" line?
Also, when I hear people talking about "playing the changes", would sticking to that simplified line be okay? It seems that changing scales with every single chord on the top line would be awfully complicated, at least for someone like me.
FWIW, I'm doing better learning this one than I have with the previous 2 tunes. I'm more familiar with the tune and at least I have the melody under my fingers.
Thanks again...

Sure, questions are definitely one of the things that are encouraged. We all learn from the questions.

V/V is pronounced as "five of five". In this case we are in the key of Eb and the V chord is a Bb7 (or Bb9 or Bbsus7). The diatonic II chord would be a IIm so in Eb the diatonic II chord would be an Fm or Fm7. But, in m.8 we don't see the Fm, we see F9 which is a dominant chord and includes the A-natural note that is not in the key of Eb. Most importantly this chord is acting as a dominant chord of the Bb9 chord. Thus the description V/V or Five of Five.

And yes you could play over the simplified changes and you would still be "playing the changes".

[Dazz]

That is a great song.
‪Julie London - Cry me a river (HQ Audio)‬‏ - YouTube
is the classic version for jazz guitarists I guess (with Barney K doing some really beautiful comping). There is even a thread on that version somewhere on this forum with a link to a transcription. This tune is also a lot easier (for me) than the last two. When trying to learn the melody, I noticed a couple of notes that sounded odd (to my crap ears) from the leadsheet that Howie posted. It turns out there is a lot of variation between fake books for this tune. e.g. in measure 1 of the melody (under C-7) the note Ab is sometimes notated as a G and in measure 3, the second Bb is a C and that sounds like what Julie London sings although either sound ok when played on the guitar. Thanks again for the work folks.
Des

[Kman]

I gave it a try.

Enjoy, or not:

02 Cry Me A River.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by Kman

I gave it a try.

Enjoy, or not:

02 Cry Me A River.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

very cool!!

[gtrplrfla]

Hi fellow fans. I too, love Barney's playing and as others have correctly noted, his comping on Julie London's version of, "Cry Me A River" (check it out on Youtube) is superb. AnAustralian gentleman, Doug Khan, has provided a transcription of Barney's comping It can be viewed below. Happy struggles ! Musical Transcriptions

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by gtrplrfla

Hi fellow fans. I too, love Barney's playing and as others have correctly noted, his comping on Julie London's version of, "Cry Me A River" (check it out on Youtube) is superb. AnAustralian gentleman, Doug Khan, has provided a transcription of Barney's comping It can be viewed below. Happy struggles ! Musical Transcriptions

That is a great transcription but hard to read; someone copied that transcription and made a clear PDF (even has tab) of it
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...-me-river.html
There are 2 or 3 really good youtube vids of people playing it also.

[wizard3739]

very nice Kman! Laid back with really nice lines. I loved it.

wiz

[wizard3739]

This my version of improv on "Cry Me A River" in C minor. I was concentrating on playing around with the melody line along with a lot of arpeggios. All comments will be much appreciated.

Cry Me A River.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

wiz

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by wizard3739

This my version of improv on "Cry Me A River" in C minor. I was concentrating on playing around with the melody line along with a lot of arpeggios. All comments will be much appreciated.

Cry Me A River.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

wiz

very nice wiz; I found this tune a lot easier to learn that some of the recent ones. I find it helps when it is a "song" with words that you already know. It makes the phrasing much easier to play around with. Anyway, nice playing!

[wizard3739]

Thanks Dazz, I listened to Julie and Barney a lot when her record came out and have always been intrigued by Barneys' intro. I have a good transcription of it but never really tried to use the intro.

wiz

[oilywrag]

@Wiz, must say you have these ballads off to a tee Howie, sounds cool as always.
@Kman, nice smooth lines and some cool ideas as well Kman very nice.

Well as one or two of you know my guitar playing is on hold for a while, until I get my fingers sorted, so as a to still have some input to this thread I thought i would post this
Arghh I know its a sax, it's just something for a change
2nd time round is a new melody that I came up with. Any way hope you like it and if anyone wants a copy the 2nd verse then let me know and i will try and sort one out.

Tom

[tonyknight]

@kman and wiz - it's great to hear such lovely jazz from good 'normal' guys - inspirational! Can't wait to get back to doing some attempts myself...

@Tom - It's really amazing how much you've learned in just a few months - that's also inspirational!

Great work guys.

[gersdal]

Originally Posted by fep

Here is a chord analysis.

The chord progression is the same as the one in the Real Book III. The Roman Numerals above the staff analyze every chord. The Roman Numerals below the staff are a simplified analysis (my guitar teacher use to say, "Think simple, play fancy).

Let me know if I made any mistakes or if you would analyze this differently. Do you have any insights? I'm hoping we can have a discussion on this.
Here's a link to a .pdf of that analysis:

Cry Me A River Analysis.pdf - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

Fep, Thanks - first of all. I was wondering, tho. How come you say the B9 in the end of the A part as the V chord? I'd say it was a tritone substitution for a Fm7, and hence the B9 - Bb7 - Ebmaj7 could be seen as a ii-V-I in Eb.

You're the educated one so I guess you have your reasons. Please let me know.

[Reg]

I think he meant either bVI7 or as you said, tri-tone sub of F9, or simply subV of Bb7. There are always different analysis, depending on how or what approach you use, (tonal references). For example if you choose to call B7 a bVI7, you would be referencing Eb as Imaj and using modal interchange for source of bVI, as compared to using a non tonal center referencing method of calling B7 a tri tone sub of F9 or sub V of Bb7sus. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference in first level of improve... but does have differences when you begin to imply different harmonic concepts down the line. Most never really ever get to those levels of playing or composing... so who really cares...Reg

[fep]

Originally Posted by gersdal

Fep, Thanks - first of all. I was wondering, tho. How come you say the B9 in the end of the A part as the V chord? I'd say it was a tritone substitution for a Fm7, and hence the B9 - Bb7 - Ebmaj7 could be seen as a ii-V-I in Eb.

You're the educated one so I guess you have your reasons. Please let me know.

Yes that's a mistake. As Reg said there are two choices.

I call it a bVI7 and that's what I should have wrote. I choose the bVI7 because I hear it that way. That relationship pops up so often and is so distinctive to my ear that I prefer think of it as it's own 'entity' and not as a substitution. But I think it's just a matter of how you hear it.

If you hear it as a tritone sub then as Reg said, it would also be proper to analyze it that way.

I guess I should go back and correct that, thanks for the heads up. I really need an editor, I can't seem to make it through one of these without a mistake here and there.

[Reg]

Hey Franks... your posts are much appreciated and even though your getting paid the big bucks, (for your posts)... don't worry about the simple typos... I think it's actually great... makes us think about analysis... Reg