Practical Standards( Dolphin Dance)

[oilywrag]

Hey Guys I know Howie(Wiz) posted about the new tune at the end of the last one but to keep each one seperate. This one will be here.



This is the backing track tempos @115 with 3 repeats..Wiz will more than likely post the pdf here as well..Enjoy and most of all have fun..

Cheers

Tom

[Kman]

I gave it a try, for better or worse.

01 Dolphin Dance.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

[Reg]

Really nice Kman. I always dig your clips, very balanced and you always seem to have a complete concept. Dolphin Dance has a few simi-complicated concepts and some of the harmonic developments are hard to hear, you handled those areas exceptionally well. Thanks for posting. I'll try and post video of analysis and possible approaches, harmonically as well as his melodic organization.
We're you familiar with tune before your post... would be cool to hear some of your mental process as to how you approached... Reg

[Kman]

Hi Reg, I am not familiar with the song. I tried to get a bass line down first. It sounded strange. It's a very interesting progression to say the least. Some resolving movement and other times none at all. Some nice pedal things. This is definately one you should break down for us.

[paynow]

Originally Posted by Kman

Hi Reg, I am not familiar with the song. I tried to get a bass line down first. It sounded strange. It's a very interesting progression to say the least. Some resolving movement and other times none at all. Some nice pedal things. This is definately one you should break down for us.

Thought you did a great job and even more so now that I know you aren't familiar with it. It's such a tough tune (I think it's one of the hardest); I always have a hard time with it. The melody is deceptively simple which I think makes it even harder and there are so many different versions of the harmony floating around, some or which are really terrible. Reg, I'd also like to hear your take on it.

There's a guitarist named Steve Giordano out of PA who's website I discovered a while back. He has great version:

Steve Giordano :: Solo - Dolphin Dance

That's the type of thing I'm shooting for with it. He also did a podcast with a vibes player named Tony Micelli where they do a version then discuss their approach to the tune, although it's not really a harmonic lesson:

Podcasts :: Steve Giordano

I've just spent some time on the internet seeking out different approaches; there many sites about this tune.

Oilywrag, thank for posting this thread!

[wizard3739]

Kman That was a very nice laid-back version of the tune. You did a great job staying with the changes and keeping in touch with the melody line. your phrases are also well connected. I enjoyed listening to it.

wiz

[Reg]

Here's a very unorganized analysis of Dolphin Dance, probable should have done in a few videos... but it's a start. A few points I missed, which I noticed after I watched... towards the end of the tune where there is either, depending on which version of the chart your looking at, B-7 to A-7/B or Dmaj7/E to Cmaj7/E... they can all be heard as a deceptive version of the 3rd tonic or part of the major 3rd cycle which should have been Bmaj. Again the 1st is Eb, the 2nd is G and the 3rd would have been B. But could be heard as a deceptive version of. This is fairly standard compositional practice, set up a system, in this case a three tonic system for harmonic structure and vary each successive system, to where the third version is almost different, or at least not clearly recognizable.... anyway I probable should have made a second take or an outline, or as I said above, in a few videos... but check it out and ask questions which will make me fill in the details and please remember there are many ways to come up with an analysis, if I did it again, it would probable be a little different... thanks Reg

YouTube Video

[paynow]

Thanks Reg. Great and informative as usual.

[Reg]

If you don't like theory or believe all the technical BS gets in the way of creativity etc... please don't read any further. I pretty much play that way... but I have put in the time and am aware of all the BS.
Thought I would add a few comments about playing analysis... When we as jazz players play a tune, even if it's extremely simple, we have somewhat of an outline of how we're going to approach melodically, harmonically...etc... We can then have a starting point of where we begin the improve process. A simple example could be...in the key of C, we have, C6/9, E7, A-7, D7, we could call the E7, either a VI7 or V7 of II- or A-7. How I interpret that E7 influences how I would use subs, modal interchange, which typical chord patterns I would approach with... and on and on. The differences may be subtle, but down the line can become very different collection of notes. This concept is the same with harmony as well as melodic development. When your actual playing, reacting and interacting, it helps if your aware of the majority of possibilities of analysis or interpretations. The better your ears, which is greatly influenced by your theoretical awareness, it's not that you can't hear the actual notes, but when you know where they can come from you have a little knowledge of where they typically go. Of course this can all be learned by trial and error... but it's extremely slow... and many times never gets there. There's no right or wrong, good or bad, I'm simply putting the info. out to be aware of. Best Reg

[fep]

Thanks Reg,

I looked at this tune and it had me pretty confused... so I didn't even try to write it up. Your discussion turned on some light bulbs. I think I can write it up and post an analysis after listening to your vid.

[Reg]

Hey Frank... great to hear from you... I really miss your expertise, thanks. Looking forward to you getting home. I'll be in SD in the fall, I'll check in.
Anyway so I made two videos. The first on is me making a backing track of Dolphin dance... no rehearsal etc... and some what loose , but I like the groove. The second video is playing through backing track... I had a little trouble remembering what I played... sorry, I'm trying to show how I trash things when winging it... Ill make one more video of traditional version of Tune... after I watch this junk movie with my son..Thanks Reg

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[morroben]

I'm working on this one. Maybe I'll get far enough to post something this time. Thanks for the video explanations. A lot of it's over my head, but I'll keep watching and learning. If anyone feels like doing a video explaining a intermediate level chord melody approach, I would be forever grateful.

[wizard3739]

Hey Reg, I LIKE that mambo version of the song! Was that a BIAB backing track? very, very nice mambo groove! I also got a lot from your video analysis of the song. I have often wondered if the minor 11th sounds my ear tells me to sub in this song and others with complex chord movoments is appropriate or if my ear is getting strange in my old age. I think I understand the harmonies involved in this tune but I still rely mostly on what I hear for a solo approach, usually based on playing around with the melody and rhythmic motif variations. This is another of my favorite songs because of the more complicated chord movements and the possibilities for many very interesting improvisation approaches. I'm probably not making my thoughts clear here but I'm having a lot of fun trying to improvise on the song.

wiz

[Reg]

Hey Howie... thanks. In the first video showing me making the backing track, I was using a rhythm sample from my electric Pn. and before I played tune, I punched in a acc. bass part, also from Pn. I bought the latest greatest BIAB, but haven't spent much time with it. I don't like having to use their lead lines, bass parts and rhythmic feels etc... I believe I can edit, just don't have much time to play with... eventually. Glad the loose analysis helped. It's a little difficult to fit all that info. into 10 min., and I'm just winging it, I don't work out a lesson plan, I just turn on the video and start breaking it down... Again thanks Reg

[Kman]

Reg, nice analysis and the groove sounded very cool. Yeah, that's how I was seeing the chart II-V's in G maj, Eb maj, A maj. I think the most confusing part of the chart are bars 15 & 16 leading to F9 sus. I guess that is like a C7 leading to F, not sure. I also have F13b9 in my chart which is the other part that is strange to me.

I stumbled across a nice Larry Coryell version of this song on his album Inner Urge.

[Reg]

Hey Kman...did you mean Eb, G and B. And do you mean by bars 15 and 16, the G pedal section, I believe it's a simple deceptive version of the 1st few bars, except in the 2nd of 3 tonic system of harmonic organization, so instead of Ebmaj going to Bb-, you have Gmaj going to D- . The G7sus is sub for D-. The F13b9 can be seen as part of a line, pedal or simple modal interchange , which Herbie uses all the time. It's pretty standard practice to change, develop or vary components of harmonic structural compositional devices, such as tonic systems, cycles etc... I always try and not lets simple details get in the way of concepts until I get the concept and usually those details fall into place, (make since on paper), in the end. Yea that was a great take by Coryell, beautiful tone. Herbie had a great talent of being able to balance use of many compositional techniques and never losing the feel or groove... Reg

[Kman]

Bars 15 & 16 on my chart are:

A with G in bass/Ebmajor7#5 with G in bass.

I was thinking this as essentialy G7/C7 going to F9sus, but I guess that's not the way to think about it.



In bars 23, 24 & 25 I see

B-7/E7 D-7/C#-11

I was just thinking II/V/I in A major here.

[Reg]

Hey Kman... you can play or think about the changes anyway... whether you have a method or not...I simple hear as version of intro, but in G. Same melody with variation of second statement mirroring the variation in harmony...are you using those changes to guide you through the passage, and would you pull from those changes as your starting point when you sub and when you improve...
Yea you can label bars 23, 24 and 25 a II V I, with the C#-11 being a function sub of Amaj, even though the melody implies Dorian for C#, you could even call the series of II V's, contiguous II V's, similar to extended Dom., that being no real tonal area, simply movement... But back to thinking of as II V I...again do you hear "A" as Tonal center, and how does that relate conceptually... to rest of tune... I can see on paper, out of context... but can't hear. That means nothing, but I can hear and explain, good or bad, how I explained.
I'll check out a few recording again and try and re-think. As I said every time I go through... it might change, I would think the recording would also. I remember bars 27-30 have a E pedal in beginning time through melody and a B pedal in the end going through melody...Best Reg

[wizard3739]

Hello all, this is my attempt at comping for this tune. It is pretty laid back and my objective here was to play a lot of different voicings and pretend I'm playing behind a vocalist.

wiz

http://www.box.net/shared/pyky5o5cd5dj45ppbrvb

[richard vandyne]

reg- that may make the rest of us quit trying to play!!!!! really great job i wish i had a recording of it. was that in cm?? thanks again

[Reg]

Very cool job Howie, I was diggin the feels... You have a pretty sweet thing going on with your band. That's really cool, please post more videos of when you play when ever it works... Thanks reg
Thanks Richard, it's a very hip old tune

[wizard3739]

Thanks Reg, we were a little worried about adding more modern music to our gig list but it seems to be working ok. We will be posting more videos that include the whole group (quartet now) as soon as we are able.
I signed an agreement to be the "on call" guitarist with a new audio/video studio here in Payson and I am very excited about it because it something I've always wanted to try.

thanks again, wiz

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by Kman

Reg, nice analysis and the groove sounded very cool. Yeah, that's how I was seeing the chart II-V's in G maj, Eb maj, A maj. I think the most confusing part of the chart are bars 15 & 16 leading to F9 sus. I guess that is like a C7 leading to F, not sure. I also have F13b9 in my chart which is the other part that is strange to me.

I stumbled across a nice Larry Coryell version of this song on his album Inner Urge.

hi Kman: thanks to you and Reg for the notes/discussion; I dig Reg's idea for treating the GMaj to G7sus part as like the intro; that simplifies and sounds good. Is there any chance you can indicate roughly where you break down the tune in G, Eb and A (that is asking a lot actually; so just the first 16 bars or so would be great) like that; I have typed in the first 16 bars here to help. Just a rough skecth would be really useful.
| Ebmaj7 | Bbm7 | Ebmaj7 | Dm7b5 G7 ||
|| Cm7 | Abmaj7#11 | Cm7 | Am7 D7 |
| Gmaj7 | Abm7 Db7 | Fm7 | Bb7 |
| Cm7 | Cm7 /Bb | Am7 | D7 ||

Reg: your groove and comping are mesmerising. I cannot follow the analysis as much as I am just trying to get the basics but you always add great vids! THANKS!

[Kman]

[quote=Dazz;160265]hi Kman: thanks to you and Reg for the notes/discussion; I dig Reg's idea for treating the GMaj to G7sus part as like the intro; that simplifies and sounds good. Is there any chance you can indicate roughly where you break down the tune in G, Eb and A (that is asking a lot actually; so just the first 16 bars or so would be great) like that; I have typed in the first 16 bars here to help. Just a rough skecth would be really useful.
| Ebmaj7 | Bbm7 | Ebmaj7 | Dm7b5 G7 ||
|| Cm7 | Abmaj7#11 | Cm7 | Am7 D7 |
| Gmaj7 | Abm7 Db7 | Fm7 | Bb7 |
| Cm7 | Cm7 /Bb | Am7 | D7 ||


Dazz, don't worry about the key of A. Reg is right it is C# dorian there in the end before the last pedal. When I looked at that initially I was thinking E7 altered there.

I am thinking where are the important altered dominant 7ths and where are the lydian 7th's. Altered 7th's are D7 in bar 4, Bb7 in bar 8, D7 in bar 12, D7 in bar 22, E7 in bar 24, F#7 in bar 26, G7 in bar 34.

There are three important Dom 7 lydian spots, Ab7 in bar 2, Db7 in bar 6 and Eb7 in bar 21. F#7 in bar 26 could go either way I guess. It's a beautiful progression, but not easy to solo over. I'm always looking where the dom 7th's are. Hope that helps a little.

[Dazz]

kewl kman!!
Ta! Helps a lot.

Des

[wizard3739]

Hello all, This is my improv on Dolphin Dance. Please forgive the 2 times I sneezed during the recording. I really don't have time to try again this week. I had such a hard time with both the melody line and the improv that I just closed my eyes and thought about Dolphins swimming around (dancing) in a circle the way they do when they are feeding. That approach probably sounds a little crazy to many of you but I often play better with my eyes shut. There are some bad notes in the melody in the first chorus and the other choruses are the way I usually sound with a lot of arpeggios (some outside) on the changes. I will try to do better with the next song we pick. Dolphin Dance is a great tune and an unusual progression but hard for me to improvise on.

wiz

Dolphin Dance Improvisation mp3 - Copy.mp3 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

[Reg]

| Ebmaj7 | Bbm7 | Ebmaj7 | Dm7b5 G7 ||
|| Cm7 | Abmaj7#11 | Cm7 | Am7 D7 |
| Gmaj7 | Abm7 Db7 | Fm7 | Bb7 |
| Cm7 | Cm7 /Bb | Am7 | D7 ||

This would simply be a starting choice, one, there a few. With changes, melody, context and general tendencies from the period, I make a choice... etc..
So Ebmaj to either Db lydian or Bb dorian, anyway you want to handle the D to Db... It's just a groove,( 1st 4 bars), but it sets the tone for the tune not following standard V I functions.
The D-7b5 G7 is the pivot or how he sets up tonal move to the relative Min. (C-). The Ab or bVI follows pattern of tonic like area to sub-dominant area. I'm using traditional terms very loosely. My point is the harmonic scheme is having non-traditional motion using traditional changes. Very similar to Shorter's method of harmonic construction using blocks of harmonic grooves etc... Ab is typical bVI which implies lydian something...usually goes to G7 or V7 and then to C- or I-... Anyway the A-7 D7 very traditionally gets you to Gmaj7. Which if you think of the tune as based on a three tonic system, or three tonal centers of harmonic construction... a major 3rd cycle, similar to Coltranes Giant Steps, just not so obvious. The Gmaj would be the 2nd tonal center, but the movement is deceptive, camouflaged. Our ears are being setup, the next seven bars are more of using traditional harmonic components to camouflage non traditional harmonic movement.
As I said in video, Ab- Db7 is sub II V of Cmin, and The F-7 Bb7 is II V of Ebmaj... C- is the function sub of Eb, both sometimes called deceptive resolutions or even back door. But more important than the choice of names is how they continue to prepare our ears for Gmaj, the next tonic system. This time when we hear II V I, ( A- D7 Gmaj) it feels normal, our ears are ready, and he grooves on similar feel as intro with pedal. The cool thing about chord progression is you have options as to what you play over standard chord patterns. Hope helps... Reg

[Reg]

Hey Howie... very cool... it really is a tough tune, but your ears are doing great, you hear each tonal area as a tonal center, it's very difficult thing to do. And you still need to keep the whole picture in focus... Great job...the sneezes were great... Reg

[wizard3739]

Thanks Reg, I had some problems with this one. BTW, your analysis is very helpful and I'm gonna try approaching the song with some of the concepts you and Frank came up with.

wiz

[oilywrag]

Hi Howie, thats a very fair attempt at a hard tune, sometimes these tunes come round to quickly and we tend to post before we are quite ready.Your ears once again haven't let you down. As for the sneezes they didn't cause you to loose your time so it doesn't matter. Nice job and thanks for posting.

Tom