Giant Steps in 5/4

[davekain]

Felt like sharing something as an introduction. Here is a "head" that I wrote for Giant Steps that I play w/ my band. It's in 5/4. Let me know if you like it and more importantly if you GOT it!

If I screwed it up, I will try to post again. Still learning my way around this thing.

DK

[brwnhornet59]

I got the pdf just fine Dave. I am looking at it now. T/y dude.

[paynow]

Just got it with no problem.

[davekain]

Cool! This thing is great. Can't believe I've never signed up before!!!

[brwnhornet59]

Glad your hear now dude. I just played through your head. It was cool. It will take me awhile to get it smooth. My sight reading sux!

[paynow]

This is very cool; an interesting approach because with 5/4 I feel it frees it up a bit in terms of soloing. I'm going to work on it and maybe post a sound clip of the head to see if I'm getting it right. My sight reading is decent but it's not easy at any rate.

[davekain]

I have audio clips of me playing this but no you tube clips. Can I post or share audio clips on here?

[brwnhornet59]

You sure can. Is it on a website?

[paynow]

I think I've seen people here use something called Soundcloud to upload clips sans video. Hopefully someone smarter than me will know.

[Jake Hanlon]

I love Giant Steps in 3 and in 5. Once you get the groove you want in your ears then it actually can be a little bit easier at least for the blowing.

Thanks for sharing your work!

[davekain]

I worked on it for quite a long time and realized that people make to much of a big deal about odd times. It's another feel. Just like a waltz or swing. You just have to get used to it. It's a lot of fun and forces you to play differently rhythmically and outside of your comfort zone.

[brwnhornet59]

Damn spammers! Get lost!

[davekain]

This guy is spam? Can I delete the comment?

[brwnhornet59]

No, the moderators will get him. I already reported both post's. He is plugging fire door's and shutters.

See the red triangle with the exclamation point at the top right corner of each post? Click that and you can report nastiness.

[davekain]

OK. Cool. You are going to have to be my "Go to Guy" when it comes to working around this thing:-) Thanks, Dude!!!

[brwnhornet59]

No worries. Hey,. I just sent you a private message. See if you can find it.

[m78w]

For sure, most odd times can be broken down to groups of 2 and 3 anyway. Such as 5 being 2+3 or 3+2 or 7 being 3+4 or 4+3 etc

Sometimes if we just take a step back we can see that a complicated idea is just a group of easy ideas that we already know and can play over.

Originally Posted by davekain

I worked on it for quite a long time and realized that people make to much of a big deal about odd times. It's another feel. Just like a waltz or swing. You just have to get used to it. It's a lot of fun and forces you to play differently rhythmically and outside of your comfort zone.

[rdbass]

Originally Posted by davekain

Felt like sharing something as an introduction. Here is a "head" that I wrote for Giant Steps that I play w/ my band. It's in 5/4. Let me know if you like it and more importantly if you GOT it!

If I screwed it up, I will try to post again. Still learning my way around this thing.

DK

i downloaded it just fine Dave,thanks for sharing this.

[Reg]

Hey Dave ... Thanks for posting...I read through. Very cool... with the use of some of your choices of melody...intro notes... 11ths and chromatics, need some articulations to help flow. I read through at around 180... Don't take me wrong... I hear and use non-implied chord tones and tensions regularly... but it's usually good to watch your chord symbols... the spellings.
Usually it's not really a big deal using enharmonic spelling of notes,( the use of flats with Bmaj7 at bar 7 etc)... but when your line... again is not just implies chord tones and tensions... it make difficult to read through. I'm a pro, what ever that means... in this situations it means I can read through and know what your implying... but your making me make choices.
Again with out articulations... and with the implied rhythmic phrasing and use of tensions... By rhythmic phrasing I mean... lines have implied up or down beat feels, how we make groove. Usually there are patterns that are established... you don't need to always stay locked in that pattern, but how and when you break or set up that pattern is extremely important if you want music to flow naturally. An example in this intro could be your melodic ideas in 1st four bars... first two statements of accenting beat 4 with rhythm and chord tone and then breaking pattern in bar 3 and restating in bar 4. Very natural rhythmic flow which helps hold together the use of 11ths and the Maj 7th in A-7 in bar 4. Another example is the use of how your breaking down the 5/4 feel. Two dotted quarters or three quarters when playing 3/2 feel. Anyway very cool... would dig hearing your version of intro... and complete tune at tempo. You can usually go to,"Go Advanced", at bottom of Quick Reply box, and then click the paper clip and pull music samples from your PC...
Best Reg

[davekain]

Originally Posted by Reg

Hey Dave ... Thanks for posting...I read through. Very cool... with the use of some of your choices of melody...intro notes... 11ths and chromatics, need some articulations to help flow. I read through at around 180... Don't take me wrong... I hear and use non-implied chord tones and tensions regularly... but it's usually good to watch your chord symbols... the spellings.
Usually it's not really a big deal using enharmonic spelling of notes,( the use of flats with Bmaj7 at bar 7 etc)... but when your line... again is not just implies chord tones and tensions... it make difficult to read through. I'm a pro, what ever that means... in this situations it means I can read through and know what your implying... but your making me make choices.
Again with out articulations... and with the implied rhythmic phrasing and use of tensions... By rhythmic phrasing I mean... lines have implied up or down beat feels, how we make groove. Usually there are patterns that are established... you don't need to always stay locked in that pattern, but how and when you break or set up that pattern is extremely important if you want music to flow naturally. An example in this intro could be your melodic ideas in 1st four bars... first two statements of accenting beat 4 with rhythm and chord tone and then breaking pattern in bar 3 and restating in bar 4. Very natural rhythmic flow which helps hold together the use of 11ths and the Maj 7th in A-7 in bar 4. Another example is the use of how your breaking down the 5/4 feel. Two dotted quarters or three quarters when playing 3/2 feel. Anyway very cool... would dig hearing your version of intro... and complete tune at tempo. You can usually go to,"Go Advanced", at bottom of Quick Reply box, and then click the paper clip and pull music samples from your PC...
Best Reg

As a fellow "pro", I find some of your criticisms slightly confusing. I'm not quite sure how to respond to them so I'll just say you can buy it at cdbaby.com/cd/davekaingroup It's entitled "Another Take". You can hear how the head works great and maintains a typical 5/4 groove.

As far as reading it and finding articulations to make it flow, that's the challenge. I wrote it to be challenging. If I wrote everything nice and even and simplistic like, that's how it would sound. I am open to criticism but it seems strange to say in one sentence that it is very cool then in the next 20 sentences analyze and elaborate on how it doesn't work, theoretically. Buy it. You'll be supporting a fellow pro and see how the head works.

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by davekain

As a fellow "pro", I find some of your criticisms slightly confusing. I'm not quite sure how to respond to them so I'll just say you can buy it at cdbaby.com/cd/davekaingroup It's entitled "Another Take". You can hear how the head works great and maintains a typical 5/4 groove.

As far as reading it and finding articulations to make it flow, that's the challenge. I wrote it to be challenging. If I wrote everything nice and even and simplistic like, that's how it would sound. I am open to criticism but it seems strange to say in one sentence that it is very cool then in the next 20 sentences analyze and elaborate on how it doesn't work, theoretically. Buy it. You'll be supporting a fellow pro and see how the head works.

Great CD I might add!

[Reg]

Hey Dave... didn't mean to upset, sorry, really. Have not seen any of your posts and never heard you post samples of playing. Thought your post was from...(non-pro) or amateur, again sorry. Comments were not directed at your playing.... simply what I noticed when looked and played through short sample of "intro" that you posted on a lessons thread. If I had wrote out, I would have noticed the same things. I'm always trying to get guitarist to be aware of what their playing and when they notate music... be aware of what their implying by that notation as well as what their implying by what their playing. No right or wrong, good or bad, simply aware. From your last post I went to your youtube link... great stuff and wonderful playing... I'll pick up your or download CD... thanks. Back to articulations... I don't believe articulations or notational spellings both harmonically or melodically really make music simplistic... just help the musician sight reading through.... interpret more of what you as the composer/arranger want. The challenge should be the music, not the notation, especially when the music is more challenging... such as your example. My comments are not layered or meant to be difficult to understand, I'm a much better musician than writer and again apologize if I offended. Now that I've listened to some of your playing, which I dig, I have a much better understanding of how you play/compose. Thanks Reg

[davekain]

Originally Posted by Reg

Hey Dave... didn't mean to upset, sorry, really. Have not seen any of your posts and never heard you post samples of playing. Thought your post was from...(non-pro) or amateur, again sorry. Comments were not directed at your playing.... simply what I noticed when looked and played through short sample of "intro" that you posted on a lessons thread. If I had wrote out, I would have noticed the same things. I'm always trying to get guitarist to be aware of what their playing and when they notate music... be aware of what their implying by that notation as well as what their implying by what their playing. No right or wrong, good or bad, simply aware. From your last post I went to your youtube link... great stuff and wonderful playing... I'll pick up your or download CD... thanks. Back to articulations... I don't believe articulations or notational spellings both harmonically or melodically really make music simplistic... just help the musician sight reading through.... interpret more of what you as the composer/arranger want. The challenge should be the music, not the notation, especially when the music is more challenging... such as your example. My comments are not layered or meant to be difficult to understand, I'm a much better musician than writer and again apologize if I offended. Now that I've listened to some of your playing, which I dig, I have a much better understanding of how you play/compose. Thanks Reg

I apologize if I placed this in the wrong forum. I am new to this and just trying to find a way to contribute. As far as the notation, I can understand your points and can only come to the conclusion I must have made an error putting it in Finale.

No worries and thank you for the kudos:-)

[Reg]

Originally Posted by davekain

I apologize if I placed this in the wrong forum. I am new to this and just trying to find a way to contribute. As far as the notation, I can understand your points and can only come to the conclusion I must have made an error putting it in Finale.

No worries and thank you for the kudos:-)

No problems... your contributions would be greatly appreciated... I'm sure.
Generally as I understand how this forum works... if your simply posting something to listen to... you post it in the showcase. If you have some educational concept you would discuss the concept and post as a new thread in one of the other sections which represents that concept or direction... best you can.
There is a thread in the Jazz Guitar Forum, Lessons section, the thread is called "Practical Standards". A Jazz Standard is picked from a collection of tunes by voting in a poll and each month players post their version(s) of tune and get feed back... I try and post a video of basic analysis and usually a quick version(s) of tune to help give a somewhat professional version... some of the so called amateur versions are much better than mine... anyway this months tune is "Dolphin Dance". Would be great to have another working musician post video... etc... I don't usually work anything out, post and play off the top...(that's a great Jimmy Smith tune) But I believe the input is very helpful to many guitarist...I've posted a few versions of tunes played in different meters and a few re-harms. etc...
You could also simply start a thread using your style of playing with examples and your analysis and discussion... I started a thread in the Comping,Chords & chord Progressions section called "Playing through Jazz Standards in a jazz style", take request and just read through the tunes with verbal comments while I play... Obviously not a great opportunity to showcase, but non-rehearsed examples of playing from knowledgeable musicians is incredibly informative. ( the knowledgeable part is subjective ). Just some ideas...
Best Reg