Hobbyist guitar playing, where to turn

[jadarite]

I started guitar out after seeing Eddie Van Halen play in the 80's. From there, I took both guitar and drum lessons. Both were rock instructors. Then I had a new drum teacher. He introduced me to Rush (Neil Peart) and Chick Corea (Dave Weckl). This got me listening to jazz, but I didn't want to bail on my "cool" rock guitar teacher. He helped me with my aternative and rock needs. I entered Berklee in 1992 for one year and since then I haven't seriously played either.

I know basic theory, I can find chords and scales on the guitar (different strings, frets). However, 20 years later, my guitar hero of the past isn't quite what he was. I like rock still, and Satriani and Steve Morse are my favorite guitarists. I have also listened to Joe Bonamassa. On the experimental front, people like Adrian Belew and a touch of Steve Vai come to mind. Then, I also appreciate the art of Henry Threadgill and Sonic Youth, who incorporate the guitar much like John Cage incorporated screws in the prepared piano.

My taste in music is all over as you can see. My development is limited to basement practicing after school or work. Practice chord, practice scale, repeat.

When I try to learn a song, I jump to the interesting parts I like and I don't learn the whole song. If I try to discipline myself to play all of it, I stop like reading a book on the couch and falling asleep after the 3rd page.

So, instead, I have studied Japanese, Chinese, and Korean. I have to learn something completely different in order for it to "stick". I failed Spanish in school cause the words were too much like English words. I just didn't see the point. Chinese writing is very interesting for me, like solving a puzzle. It keeps my interest.

I am trying to find a way to unite that kind of interest back with music, specifically guitar. Where can someone start?

Should I sit down with the Real Book and just give it a year and play the songs? Where should I invest my time?

[Stackabones]

Start learning a song that you love and go from there. Learn it by heart. If you don't have a song that you love and have to learn right now, then find a song you love.

What's your favorite jazz tune?

[voelker]

if you already know a bunch of chord inversions; Try to learn or write a chord melody. It may take a long time, but it will make you want to play the whole song. And it focuses that chord knowledge by forcing you to use an inversion that has the melody note on the top, and find fingurings that flow into each other.

[jadarite]

"What's your favorite jazz tune?"

I like "Ode to a friend" (whatever one Louis Bellson played), "Strength to the weak" John Patitucci, "Light years" Chick Corea.

These to me are 1 out of 10, 10 songs. Meaning if I were to rate them like a movie, I would rate them 10 stars. The band is coming together, and everything is working out.

The problem is that these are not guitar songs. I want some MIDI effect like when I play a chord I also hear trumpets or a saxophone. That's the trap I feel I am in. So, I retreat and just play Monday night ethnomusicologist, writing and drawing up theories.

My interest in guitar comes when I hear Satriani play a song live in concert, but he doesn't stop like on the CD. He continues and does some completely different stuff. I like his version of "Raspberry Delta Jam V" when he played it live at Moore Theatre (early 2000's). Joe Bonamassa is another one that will sing well, which I recognize but don't want to emulate. Then he just solos some weird stuff I never heard in blues before (like Satriani).

Steve Morse is more of the practical guitar player. He is very dedicated to the job of being a guitarist in a band, in stark contrast with Bonamassa and Satriani who just take the lead all the time. It's the lead parts I want to learn, but I want to play in a band setting like Steve Morse. Satriani is too reserved when he plays second fiddle to Hagar with Chickenfoot.

So it's not a "favorite song" I have, but a favorite experience. I want to go in and out of a playing style. Right now, it's not happening. I play like I am programming a robot.

[Dad3353]

Originally Posted by jadarite

...I want to go in and out of a playing style...

Good afternoon, jadarite...
Started in the 80's? I would guess that you're aged early/mid 40's..? I don't want to sound cruel or whatever, but I think you'll have to face up to it; it's not going to happen. Not that it's impossible, just that it's not going to happen. Your reference players are admirable, there are many more favourites of us all (to each his/her story...); all dedicated their time to mastering, and often surpassing, their field. You will never be able to do anything approaching their prowess, period.
This does not mean that you can never get extatic from your own playing, as long as your aspirations are do-able. If you will only be satisfied by obtention of an unreachable goal, stop now.
Maybe you could adjust your goal somewhat. Instead of having as a challenge Satriani, or Vai, aim your sights to your own progression, on your terms. I doubt that the daily, constant, sacrifice needed for practicing these skills is a practical option for you (most of us have work to do..!).
Fix rather an objective that you wish to attain, and that you can and will obtain, and be satisfied when attained. Fix a higher target and repeat...
I get the impression that 'straight' jazz (you know; that boring, fuddy-duddy stuff that old codgers and ex-beatniks keep churning out, as if the 40's was going to come back...) is not your sonic reference. I would perhaps suggest that 'technique' in the virtuoso mastering of the instrument is not the only road to enjoyment, even fulfillment. There is a ton of fun, and good music, to be had from playing around (and eventually mastering...) the electronics and 'gadgets' readily available these days. I can't play like Satriani, of course, but with a bucket full of effects I can have a great time pretending to, which suffices for me.
I hope this doesn't come across as too negative, and if I'm wrong somewhere (often happens...), please forgive.
No malice intended; hope this helps...

[23skidoo]

Dad- you make some excellent points, but don't forget Joseph Conrad didn't publish his first novel until he was 37 - and five or six years later produced Heart of Darkness, which I think might be the best novel written in English - which also happens to be his third language. He had obstacles to overcome and he did.

I'm starting to get serious about guitar at 36 - I feel like I keep saying this, in different threads - but I think about real virtuoso instrumentalist. A lot of people really hit their stride 15-20 years into seriously playing. I keep telling myself 'so you'll hit your prime in your mid-50's - you'll be that hip old cat at the Grammy's!'

This is where the goal setting comes in. I really don't want to win a Grammy (lol) but I want to be able to play my a** off. I don't have any designs on a career in music, but I don't feel like it would be impossible. Unlikely, but not impossible.

I know your being realistic and pragmatic, but let me give you an example. My folks are retired. They sold their house and bought one of those big crazy RV's and turned into nomads. My dad always loved music - my earliest musical memories are him singing Kris Kristofferson and Willie Nelson songs to me, rocking me to sleep - but he never learned to play. So he comes back from a trip to Arizona last year with an Epiphone acoustic, says he wants to learn to play guitar. Nothing serious, just strum a few chords and sing, just what I've always done.

He did it. He's about a year in and he's learned all the open chords. I've helped him out printing lyrics and putting the changes in, recording instrumental tracks that he can strum along with and sing to. He's learned tons of the old country songs he loves and even feels comfortable enough to sit with some other old guys at the jam sessions they have in the RV park where they're staying. He set a goal and he's getting there, amazingly well, I might say, and he'll be 70 this year.

He's really inspired me to take it to the next level with the guitar. I'd been thinking 'I should have done it when I was 19, it's too late now'. Now I think 'I should have done it when I was 19, but, hell, I'm only 36'.

Dad: I'm not trying to offend you - far from it - but I have to cordially disagree. To the OP - go for it. I'm not in a position to tell you how to do it, but I think you can if you really want to.

I need my own blog (getting down off the soap box.....)

[fep]

Whoa there Daddyo, he never said his goal was to play as well as Satriani.

Someone asked where his interests lie.

I dig Wes, that doesn't mean I expect to ever play as well as him. But I can still cop some of his licks and chord ideas.

[Kman]

Should I sit down with the Real Book and just give it a year and play the songs? Where should I invest my time?

Yes, you can play easy songs like All Of Me in the key of C. Don't think to much, just have fun playing. Many songs have one key center and simple melodies. Get started with those first and have fun doing it. Set your metrone to 2 and 4 and start swinging right away I say.

[Baltar Hornbeek]

Originally Posted by jadarite

I am trying to find a way to unite that kind of interest back with music, specifically guitar. Where can someone start?

You really need to find this within yourself. It's there, but you've got to work on it. Or I suppose, you could hire some sort of task master that will whip you into shape.

[Banksia]

Originally Posted by 23skidoo

I really don't want to win a Grammy

Hey you don't wanna be the only person on Earth who's never won a Grammy. My dog's won three and one of my ducks got one last year for Best Avian Performance in a Music Video - Spiritual or Spoken Word.

[Stackabones]

Originally Posted by jadarite

The problem is that these are not guitar songs.

You need to disabuse yourself of the notion that songs can either be guitar songs or not guitar songs, especially in jazz. A song is a song.

Originally Posted by jadarite

So it's not a "favorite song" I have, but a favorite experience. I want to go in and out of a playing style. Right now, it's not happening. I play like I am programming a robot.

Are you sure you want to play jazz? Maybe it's the mechanics and techniques or seemingly arcane knowledge that you are interested in? Some folks are drawn to jazz under the impression that it will make them better players, which is unlikely. They are more impressed with modes and chord progressions than songs.

[Drumbler]

Jadarite,

You sound goal-less. Without a goal there is no reason to keep going in anything.

Perhaps if you were to play with others you might ignite a spark. Any way you can find others to jam with?

If not, then chord melody could be the thing for you. It doesn't have to be jazz songs. You could make chord melodies up from pop songs.

Find enjoyment in playing music. Don't worry about technical mastery. That will come in its own time.

If someone asked you to "play something" could you? If not then that is not good. Learn to "play something".

The 70 year old chord strummer mentioned in a previous post is "playing something". He is also being social and playing with others. You can too.

Maybe you can write your own songs!

[Mojojojo]

I completely agree with the poster above. It's gotta be fun, or else it's all academic. Like you, reading through music books will put me to sleep in short order. Every time I go through slumps where I feel like I'm not "learning" anything and my practice routine gets robotic and uninspired, I go back to the beginning. I go back to what it was that drew me to music in the first place. Like you, one of my early idols was Van Halen. Back when I was first learning to play, I couldn't pull off any of those licks. When the solo's came, I played rhythm or just kind of air guitared those licks. Those licks are forever burned into my brain, I could literally hum or skat every last note of them, because that's how much I loved the music. I kind of burned out on guitar back in the 90's but picked it back up again in the 00's. I decided I wanted to take structured lessons in order to fill in the gaps in my knowledge that happens when you're self taught. Though I learned a lot, and continue to learn, it gets acedemic really quick. I still start to squirm when I get one of those theory know it alls trying to "break it all down" for me. When music becomes a chore that I just want to put off, the only way to turn it around is to just play. I've found that I now possess the chops to revisit all those old songs I loved as a kid starting out and that the music is just as good today as it was then. I've been knocking out all these old songs I shelved for years, and the satisfaction I'm getting from that is enormous. Along the way, I'm discovering certain profound "aha" moments that puts the theory I've learned into practical application. It's those moments that actually push me to delve deeper into that theory on my own. So my advise to you is to remember what made you want to play guitar in the first place and revisit that fountain. Talent? I don't believe in it. I think true talent is DESIRE.

[pierre richard]

be yourself first man....say what you want to say...

it takes time ...

time on the instrument...pierre

[fumblefingers]

sounds like you have artistic ADHD. perhaps guitar is just an amusing diversion? perhaps you like the idea of playing the guitar, but not the real thing?

but if you do, then get a teacher. get a schedule and some discipline. play tunes from start to finish with all appropriate dynamics.

regardess of style ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have at least a 3-tune "recital" that you can perform for anyone. dont worry if its not up to "hero level". play well at your level (dont play poorly at an elevated level). add more tunes/pieces as you go. don't play "hot licks" only. that's a dead end.

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

.
... ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have at least a 3-tune "recital" that you can perform for anyone. dont worry if its not up to "hero level". play well at your level (dont play poorly at an elevated level). add more tunes/pieces as you go. don't play "hot licks" only. that's a dead end.

Really good advice!!!

[lazybones]

Originally Posted by fumblefingers

sounds like you have artistic ADHD. perhaps guitar is just an amusing diversion? perhaps you like the idea of playing the guitar, but not the real thing?

but if you do, then get a teacher. get a schedule and some discipline. play tunes from start to finish with all appropriate dynamics.

I'll second this advice - I have artistic ADHD. My tastes are all over the place and my practice generally runs in 20 different directions but never gets anywhere. I've been playing in my bedroom for 20 years and only recently have I had any confidence in my playing. Noodling and learning licks is fun, but doesn't make for constructive practice.

- set specific goals that are attainable in a reasonable amount of time (ie. weeks not months)
- work towards them on a regular schedule
- keep a journal so you can make notes about progress or trouble spots. It REALLY helps to get your mindset into where you left off yesterday.
- exercise discipline to stay on ONE SPECIFIC GOAL, and give that the bulk of your practice attention before looking at other things.

I'm pretty random in my choices of songs, but nowadays when I choose one I stick to it a lot longer than I used to. I don't follow this system perfectly, but my playing has made a real jump forward and my discipline is improving.

My $0.02...