Major and Minor 2 5 1 Questions

[guitarnut]

I understand major 2 5 1 and know how to figure Major 2 5 1 in all keys..What I don't understand is how to use minor 2 5 1, although I can recognize minor 2 5 1 in a song , like Autumn Leaves, for instance..
What exactly is minor 2 5 1 and How do I learn to figure this out in all minor keys ?
Thanks ,
Paul

[GodinFan]

Usually a minor ii-V will consist of a m7(b5) chord leading to some type of altered dominant, often a 7(b9) chord. This may or may not lead to a target chord that's minor.

[mr. beaumont]

In a minor ii V I, you're borrowing from harmonic minor--the V chord is dominant. Minor is a much more complex entity than major...

You don't have to worry so much about that right away--when finding the chords, write out your minor scale. ii (second note, of course) is harmonized as a half diminished, V is dominant, as GF suggested, usually altered (#5, b5, #9, b9, any or all of those--use your ears)

[JazzFanatik]

Thanks this is helpful! I have wondered this myself...

[ksjazzguitar]

Really, a ii7-V7-I in major is just a way of expressing a major key. A iim7b5-V7-i is just the way of expressing a minor key. There is nothing magical about those particular chords, just that it has become a jazz cliche to use them to express the key (OK, it's a little more complex than that, but that's good enough for now.)

The roots (the alphabet names of the chords) will be the same for the respective chords in major and minor keys, you just need to change the "qualities," i.e. m7 changes to m7b5, etc. They have those qualities because of the notes that are available from the parent scales. Do a Google search on "harmonizing scales" and you'll get lots of explanations.

Peace,
Kevin

[mynewguitar]

As always, these discussions shed a light on subjects that have been murky to me, and the case of major / minor over a II V I has been a source of constant fascination. I could hear the notes but could never explain why they worked or what form they fit into.

I appreciate the opportunity to listen in on the discussion. So much to learn!

[M-ster]

Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar

Really, a ii7-V7-I in major is just a way of expressing a major key. A iim7b5-V7-i is just the way of expressing a minor key. ... The roots (the alphabet names of the chords) will be the same for the respective chords in major and minor keys, you just need to change the "qualities" ...

Exactly. Good explanation.

Say, I wonder if Mr. B. has the juice to delete the obvious spammage, when he encounters it? (Hint, hint ... )

[VersatileJazzGuitarist]

Warning: don't take the above as unbendable rules.

Sometimes you will see "minor ii-V-i" end with a major chord, and vice-versa.

Example:
Dmi7 G7b9 Cmi7
Dmi7b5 G7b9 CMaj7

For instance, here are the first 3 chords of "I Love You" from Real Book I:
Gmi7b5 C7b9 FMaj7

[jaystrings]

I appreciate the question and the responses. Murky area for me. This is helping. Thanks.

Jay