- Getting it together - following the changes.

[adamreir]

Hi all.

Working with neck-knowledge is obviously an important part of playing jazz. Being able to arpeggiate every chord in a fast tune / actually being able to improvize using scales without thinking about it etc.

Far as I can tell there is a LOT of different approaches to getting to know your guitar. Right now I'm working with it in a really position-playing fashion. Keeping my left hand at the same position while I improvize over some Aebersold playalong, using scales, arpeggios, chromatics etc.

I feel this approach is working right now, but I'm simply wondering how you guys practice this. Although I do feel I'm progressing, all this takes an lot of time. What do you think about my approach? Any tips and tricks that would speed things up a bit? Another approach you think works well?

Thanks, Adam

[bako]

Thorough position study is great. When you have a feel for what can be played in one position in 12 keys then all those fingerings are moveable elsewhere.
I define a position as 5 frets because that is what is needed for 2 and 1/3 octaves of range with one unison.
Others like 6 frets because of the option of extending either up or down. I am convinced 5 frets is better for fingerboard study but 6 frets is useful for real playing because it offers an option to avoid awkward fingerings.

Using a playalong track in conjunction with something that can transpose it without changing the tempo, (I use "Transcribe" software)
play one tune in 12 keys. Play the theme, chords and solo all in one position. Pick a tune that you know well to start with. Write things out if you have to.
If you input the song into a notation software you can do a one button press transpose move.

Transposition in one position teaches how the same intervals manifest in different fingerings.

Playing tunes in 12 keys on one string is another piece of the puzzle. Playing on one string is all about shifting. When you combine position playing with shifting that's pretty much the whole story. The only other fingering principle that I use is organizing notes based on string groups. It is a different mindset but the elements are contained within position playing and shifting. I generally use this to create fingerings that support a rhythmic or phrasing idea.

Transposition work raises the bar which in the long run will speed things up. In the short run it too takes time.

Another variant on this is to pick one key a day and play a set of tunes (4-12 based on time available) in that key. Next day play the same songs in another key. Ect. through 12 keys.

[adamreir]

Hah, sounds like you've been reading some Mick Goodrick, am I wrong? ("The Realm of the Electric Ice-Skating Rink"?).

And yeah, I know about movable position etc.

Personally, I define a position as a position for the third finger, as the first and forth stretch up and down, and I only stay in one position when i practice positions. When I play a tune, my hand shifts up and down all the time, several reasons.

Playing one tune in all key is a good tips tough, thanks.

What I'm asking is how you practice scales. So that when a C7#11 pops up, you don't have to think twice before you know where all the scale-/chord-notes are (Don't think twice, it's allright). I know how scales and arpeggios work, and I know a lot of them inside out, but i need to lower my reaction-time, so that I can play more complex tunes.

Thanks, once again

[adamreir]

Well, not complex tunes. But playing them faster. I know how to practice over Giant Steps and Stella, but not at a normal tempo. Reaction time is my keyword here.

[bako]

Adamreir,

Years ago I studied with Ted Dunbar at Jazzmobile. He taught me what it meant to be serious about music and was very focused on fingerboard knowledge. The Advancing Guitarist is a great book and reinforced the years of work I had already done and gave me the catchy "Realm of the Electric Ice-Skating Rink" phrase. Some things that I got from Mick includes a clearer organization of triad over bass structures in scale context, the multiple function structures (harmonic continuity) and more.

It sounds like you have many aspects in good shape. To speed your reaction time you will have to identify your weakest links in the process and design focused steps to strengthen them.

[fumblefingers]

definition of position.

classical - position is defined as where the first finger lies in a one-finger- per-fret position of 4 frets.

William Leavitt defined it as one fret behind where the second finger lies.

a classical guitar professor asked me "whats the difference"? i explained that Leavitt's fingerings and the 3NPS fingerings involve some first finger stretches.

[princeplanet]

I think the OP has a great question. So how do you guys speed up reaction times to quickly find the right PC in the desired position?
Perhaps devising your own etudes that cover every chord progression in every key in every position- ha, sounds easy when you put it like that!

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

I think the OP has a great question. So how do you guys speed up reaction times to quickly find the right PC in the desired position?

"PC" = "pitch collection"?

[bako]

Using intervallic cycles to over practice a particular progressional challenge.

Ex: Giant Steps already has progression cycles of both ascending and descending major 3rds cadences to major chords.

isolating the II V I's and applying a cycle of descending minor 3rds F-D-B-G# gives me this sequence

Fm7 Bb7/ Ebma7/ Am7 D7/ Gma7/ C#m7 F#7/ Bma7
Dm7 G7/ Cma7/ F#m7 B7/ Ema7/ Bbm7 Eb7/ Abma7
Bm7 E7/ Ama7/ Ebm7 Ab7/ Dbma7/ Gm7 C7/ Fma7
G#m7 C#7/ Bma7/Cm7 F7/ Bbma7/ Em7 A7/ Dma7

[Zhivago]

Originally Posted by FatJeff

"PC" = "pitch collection"?

MR Pitch Collection for you ...

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by Zhivago

MR Pitch Collection for you ...

LOL

[Tony Santodonato]

Also, try playing scales with each successive note on a different string. Start easy with C major and work from there. No two notes can be on the same string.You will find your self jumping around at first but I think it's a great exercise to expand fretboard knowledge.

[bako]

Tony,

Do you mean like this?

----------------------------------0--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------3--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------5---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------9----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------12----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--15---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




There are also cool fingerings for keys with open strings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------0------------3------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------0-----------3------------7------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------0-----------------5--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------0----------4-----------7--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------0---------3---------7--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--3-------7------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Tony Santodonato]

The second example is more of what I'm talking about. In the first example drop down to lower strings when you run out of room(f# on 11th fret G string then g on 8th fret B string for example but there are more options). Also, if possible, try not to use open strings so you are forced up the fretboard. This makes you utilize the fingerboard. We all know our open strings. In a song, you might find cool effects by using open strings.There are so many different ways you can play lets say example#1 but as a complete major scale.It all depends when you decide to switch to a lower string so you never run out of space. Try it next in two octaves.

[Tony Santodonato]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------7---------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------6-------------10----------------13-----
------------------------------------2--------------5-------------9------------12-------------------------------
-------------2--------------5---------------9------------12-----------------------------------------------------
-------5------------8-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--8-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

C major 2 octaves (one of many options)

[JohnW400]

[tab]

-------------------0--------------------------
------------0--------4-------------------------
-------0-------7-------------------------------
----0-----7------------------------------------
------6---------------------------------------
--7-------------------------------------------

---------------------0------------------------
--------------0-------------------------------
---------0--------6----------------------------
----0-------7----------------------------------
-------8--------------------------------------
--9-------------------------------------------

[tab]

I've been working on finding these 'arpeggios' Hold your fingers in place