Poll: fave devices over Doms

princeplanet · #1 03-26-2010, 09:43 PM

Well, it's not a real poll as I don't know how to set it up, but a quick show of hands would still be helpful.

Is everyone using some kind of Alt dom MM idea against every Dom opportunity, or do you prefer dim (arps or scales), mixo, bebop scale or even pentatonics? GT's? Licks? Patterns? Does anyone ever use a straight dom 7 arp anymore??

So, before y'all chime in and say "all the above", maybe if you could limit it to your favorite one or two devices? Thanks!

Scrybe · #2 03-27-2010, 06:40 AM

If anyone happens to have transcribed the solos on Adam's Apple, or any big versions of Caravan (e.g. the Monk version or something), I'd also be interested to know what they used. I've not had the chance to transcribe either yet, but my ears aren't really attuned to what they're doing so much as on other trax. Thx.

princeplanet · #3 03-27-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrybe

If anyone happens to have transcribed the solos on Adam's Apple, or any big versions of Caravan (e.g. the Monk version or something), I'd also be interested to know what they used. I've not had the chance to transcribe either yet, but my ears aren't really attuned to what they're doing so much as on other trax. Thx.

Hey, you're gate crashing my thread!

RunningBeagle · #4 03-28-2010, 02:25 PM

When you're really playing creatively and to the point, what is being played is seldom categorizable into neat scalar classifications. A good solo rarely uses all of the available tensions on any given functional dominant chord, so it's really impossible to classify the ideas. And that's all these scales are, analysis tools; you shouldn't be trying to derive ideas from them.

You SHOULD be thinking about the tensions and whether they are appropriate to the harmonic context. For example, if you hear someone play an Eb over a G7 chord resolving in C, he could be thinking, "Gee, I like the sound of b13 here, because I've been playing all this diatonic stuff, and I want a little more spice in this cadence." From an analytical standpoint, you could say he's using an altered scale idea, but he's probably not thinking of that scale.

You might play a b13 because of some sort of motivic development. Look at the tune Invitation starting with the II- V to B minor. The dominant ideas there are all about developing an idea based around fifths. I'm not saying the funny notes arise incidentally, but the motivation behind them is at least as much horizontal as vertical.

I like to play augmented arpeggios over dominant chords a lot (probably more than I should). Analytically these could come out of harmonic minor or melodic minor modes, but I just like the sound of the notes (b13, R, 3), they way they sound in sequence, and the possibilities they offer to resolve.

derek · #5 03-28-2010, 05:13 PM

I use diminished and the tritone a. bunch aka, lydian dominant, of the MM scale.

princeplanet · #6 03-29-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBeagle

When you're really playing creatively and to the point, what is being played is seldom categorizable into neat scalar classifications. A good solo rarely uses all of the available tensions on any given functional dominant chord, so it's really impossible to classify the ideas. And that's all these scales are, analysis tools; you shouldn't be trying to derive ideas from them.

You SHOULD be thinking about the tensions and whether they are appropriate to the harmonic context. For example, if you hear someone play an Eb over a G7 chord resolving in C, he could be thinking, "Gee, I like the sound of b13 here, because I've been playing all this diatonic stuff, and I want a little more spice in this cadence." From an analytical standpoint, you could say he's using an altered scale idea, but he's probably not thinking of that scale.

You might play a b13 because of some sort of motivic development. Look at the tune Invitation starting with the II- V to B minor. The dominant ideas there are all about developing an idea based around fifths. I'm not saying the funny notes arise incidentally, but the motivation behind them is at least as much horizontal as vertical.

I like to play augmented arpeggios over dominant chords a lot (probably more than I should). Analytically these could come out of harmonic minor or melodic minor modes, but I just like the sound of the notes (b13, R, 3), they way they sound in sequence, and the possibilities they offer to resolve.

Sure, it's the ol' "language" comaprison - you don't think about nouns and verbs when you speak, therefore......
BUT, when you learn a new language, maybe you do (or you should?), at least until the language feels familiar. Anyway, to go on with the language analogy, dissonance to me is like swearing! Why not? I learn all the swear words and they just come out appropriately (?) when I need my language to be emphatic, or offensive, or dramatic etc... You don't swear all the time, you just save it for where it can be effective. Dom7th is where I sometimes like to "swear" over, you know, the tension things we all love. Just wondering whether we all overdo it because it's fashionable. Sometimes I play a straight mixo idea or bebop scale motif or even a plain V7 arp cell, and it sounds refreshingly... novel!

fep · #7 03-29-2010, 12:37 AM

There's an instructional video by Don Mock called The Blues from Rock to Jazz.

He starts out with a static C7 chord vamp and discusses playing arps off of each of the scale degrees of a C7 arp. Start on C for a C7 arp, start on E for a Em7b5 arp, start on G for a Gmin7 arp, start on Bb for a Bbmaj7 arp. Then throw in some triad ideas using C maj triad and Bb maj triad. Mix and match all that with the mixolydian scale... playing all that over the C7 chord.

So he demonstrates all that and it sounds really jazzy and really good (of course his chops and time are really really good is part of the reason it sounds so good). And then says... "all that came from the notes of the simple mixolydian scale, there's a lot of music in that one scale".

For me that was a light bulb moment. Learning jazz often pushes me to new ideas, scales, arps, substititions etc., which can be counterproductive to my playing - at least in the short run. So, my light bulb moment was keep it simple and really mastering those few ideas... it's worth thinking about.

RememberClifford1 · #8 03-29-2010, 06:47 AM

triad pairs and the good old fashioned bebop scale. I'm just guessing that I probably go to those more automatically but I guess you don't want to pick a favorite in this category. They're really your opportunity to do anything.

princeplanet · #9 03-30-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fep

There's an instructional video by Don Mock called The Blues from Rock to Jazz.

He starts out with a static C7 chord vamp and discusses playing arps off of each of the scale degrees of a C7 arp. Start on C for a C7 arp, start on E for a Em7b5 arp, start on G for a Gmin7 arp, start on Bb for a Bbmaj7 arp. Then throw in some triad ideas using C maj triad and Bb maj triad. Mix and match all that with the mixolydian scale... playing all that over the C7 chord.

So he demonstrates all that and it sounds really jazzy and really good (of course his chops and time are really really good is part of the reason it sounds so good). And then says... "all that came from the notes of the simple mixolydian scale, there's a lot of music in that one scale".

For me that was a light bulb moment. Learning jazz often pushes me to new ideas, scales, arps, substititions etc., which can be counterproductive to my playing - at least in the short run. So, my light bulb moment was keep it simple and really mastering those few ideas... it's worth thinking about.

Nice, I was hoping someone would say something like this...