I need help improvising

[camircase]

Ok, so I've been playing for a while, but I've never really been able to improvise over chord progressions, even simple ones. I think I've read somewhere in this site that experienced players know their scales and arpeggios and the likes so well that they don't need to think about them anymore, but, as a matter of fact, I'm not an experienced player, so I have to think about something. What are the best way to practice improvisation and what do I need to think while doing it? Do I think about patterns, notes, intervals, what?

Thanks for your kind help...

[Zhivago]

I would go for 4th chord arpeggios, and the major and minor scales at first... base your improvisation on that.

[mr. beaumont]

i'm assuming the good dr. means 4 note arpeggios, meaning Root, third, fifth and seventh to start.

playing the changes is the best way to sound "jazzy," and arpeggios are the most immediate introduction you can have. playing arpeggios based off the chord of the moment with some chromatic passing tones thrown in to link things is a recipe that'll get you quite far.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Maybe this goes without saying, but before you try to improvise, be sure you know the tune!

1. Learn the melody. Play it in different places on your neck. You can always adds bits of the tune to your improvising.

2. Learn the changes. Play them in different places on your neck. Try to sing/hum/whistle the melody at the same time.

When you improvise it really helps if you use a program like Band in a Box or a looper so you can hear the chords.

3. I would start even simpler than arpeggios: just play the roots of the chords. Whole notes or half notes; then the thirds, then fifths, then sevenths (at least).

2. Then a mix of those chord tones, favoring the thirds and sevenths since those are what make a chord major versus minor, for example. Try to form lines by playing some adjacent chord tones, like F->E for G7->C.

3. Move from half notes to quarter notes. Perhaps now the arpeggios start to fit in, as well as some passing tones.

You're on your way!

[Goofsus4]

Actually, I think when you are first trying to improvise it's actually better NOT to know much about scales or patterns or even arps. It's the pattern based thinking that gets in the way of truly listening to the accompaniment and offering up your own musical response.

Try this: record yourself comping a ii V I (or use BIAB or something like that). Now just loop this and listen to the changes. Try a slow tempo like 90 or 100, maybe even slower. Just play a note. You can use the notes from chord grips you know. If you know a bit about the pentatonic scale or the major scale that will help too, but it's not necessary. You can even play a note at random. If it sounds bad, just move it up or down a half a step and it will sound much better. As the chord changes play that note again. It may sound good or bad, again if it doesn't sound so good, just move along the string until something does sound good. After a few loops through the cycle using the notes you are finding that sound good, try some other notes to form simple two or three note phrases. Again, if you ever land on a bad note, just move along the same string until you find a better note. After several more loops you'll begin to remember the notes that "work" over that whole ii V I. You will now have a custom scale that fits that ii V I. Start trying to make lines from those notes. When you get bored with that, try adding other notes by ear in the same way. Keep widening the palette out. Do this for hours. What you will find is that you will begin to notice that your ear naturally draws you to the notes that you will recognize as part of the chord grips you already know. Our ears pull us to that natural diatonic harmony found in the chord tones.

I think you shouldn't worry about sounding jazzy. Just try to make music with your lines. Eventually you'll start to see patterns emerge. Now check those patterns against chord arps and scales. You'll begin to see that the notes you are choosing fall into various scales, usually the major scale (if you are still playing over that ii V I).

When I first started improvising, I recorded entire solos never having any idea what notes I was playing. I just worked out note palettes that worked for the progression I was playing over by trial and error. Later, I learned what arps and scales those notes really belonged to. But, the point is that the music must come first. Just practice following your ear for a while.

Note that this method will not work over a complex set of song changes. You have to keep this simple - I IV V, ii V I, or just a two chord vamp or even a single chord. You'd be amazed at how much you can learn by simply experimenting with playing over one chord for an hour at a time.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

If it sounds bad, just move it up or down a half a step and it will sound much better.

Is that how you got your user name, Mr G?

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Is that how you got your user name, Mr G?

I get it - hey, that's clever!

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Actually your next sentence is the definition of "suspended":

As the chord changes play that note again. It may sound good or bad, again if it doesn't sound so good, just move along the string until something does sound good.

[Zhivago]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

i'm assuming the good dr. means 4 note arpeggios, meaning Root, third, fifth and seventh to start.

Yep, that was it, I just said it in a way making the relation between the chord and the arpeggio of the notes of the chord.

[cosmic gumbo]

Start with the melody and just try to embellish it. That is usually the very beginning step of improv.

[voelker]

Interviewer- "Why do you play so many notes?"
Coltrane- "I'm looking for the right note."
Interviewer- "What if you should find it?"
Coltrane- "I'll play it again."

[randalljazz]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

Maybe this goes without saying, but before you try to improvise, be sure you know the tune!

1. Learn the melody. Play it in different places on your neck. You can always adds bits of the tune to your improvising.

2. Learn the changes. Play them in different places on your neck. Try to sing/hum/whistle the melody at the same time.

When you improvise it really helps if you use a program like Band in a Box or a looper so you can hear the chords.

3. I would start even simpler than arpeggios: just play the roots of the chords. Whole notes or half notes; then the thirds, then fifths, then sevenths (at least).

2. Then a mix of those chord tones, favoring the thirds and sevenths since those are what make a chord major versus minor, for example. Try to form lines by playing some adjacent chord tones, like F->E for G7->C.

3. Move from half notes to quarter notes. Perhaps now the arpeggios start to fit in, as well as some passing tones.

You're on your way!

word!

[qsblues]

There is a lot of great advice in this thread. You should take all of it to heart. The main thing that stood out to me is learning theory and ear training. When I was in Berklee, the emphasis was on learning scales and chords COLD. There are basic scales that one must learn and know them like you know your name. Keep in mind that these scales also include all the corresponding modes ...

Major
Minor
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Symmetric Diminished
Whole Tone
Major Pentatonic
Minor Pentatonic

That's basically 42 scales that ANY aspiring musician needs to know cold, and be able to play (and sing) from any position on the neck, starting with any note, and starting the scale from any of your fingers on your fretting hand, and be able to play them without looking at your hands. Then, you should be able to play them in position over 2 octaves, then across the neck horizontally over 3 octaves.

While you're doing this, you should work on arpeggios for all chord types corresponding to every scale above. You should work on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd inversions, starting at any point on the neck, across one and two octaves.

Did I mention that you should also know drop 2, drop 3, and drop 2+4 chords in all inversions that you can grip? Oh yeah, that too.

Have a metronome handy, and increase the tempo by one notch every week. START SLOWLY!

Keep in mind, that this is merely technique. Once you have the mechanics down, then you will be able to play what you hear in your head, since you have then conditioned yourself to hear any of the basic building blocks of jazz theory. You can then apply your knowledge to standards, and you will be able to improvise proficiently.

All in all, this method has taken me about 20 years, and I'm still working on it. I could play pretty well before I went to school, but I didn't really KNOW what I was doing ... I could already hear it. But now that I KNOW what I'm doing, it's much more satisfying, and my playing has increased exponentially over the past 20 years. But I still keep at it.

You'll be working on this for the rest of your life. Have fun, and never give up!

[peterja]

Dont let qsblues´ post scare you carmicase.

I think it´s great to know all the scales "cold, and be able to play (and sing) from any position on the neck, starting with any note, and starting the scale from any of your fingers on your fretting hand, and be able to play them without looking at your hands. Then, you should be able to play them in position over 2 octaves, then across the neck horizontally over 3 octaves."

Respect. And certainly something to aspire to.

BUT you will be able to play great and inspired impros long before that will happen.
You don´t have to be a Rosenwinkellikevirtuousos to play a meaningfull solo.
I´ve seen professionel musiciens making a career and play beutiful solos using only 2 or 3 positions.
And others seem to be so focused on the mechanics of music, that they forget to spend time on spirit and inspiration, in my opinion equally important aspects of music (not saying you are one of them qsblues).

You can have all the tools in the world and still be a pretty lousy plumber. And on the other hand you have a guy like Macgyver who seems to be able to fix anything with his Swiss army knife...



But then again, think what MacGyver could achieve with a plumbers tool set

[qsblues]

Wow. Whodathunk that a thread about guitar improvisation would create such controversy? I'm just relating my personal experience, in response to a very good question. I know damn well that scales and theory is not the mutt's nuts, since Wes Montgomery and Jeff Beck could play me into the dirt.

Since this intrepid young explorer asked the question, I stepped up to the plate and swung. If there was one definitive answer, this site would not exist.

But I do thank everyone for their great responses to a great question, and I thank everyone for their responses to my obviously one sided opinion. I do hope that at least I've thrown down the gauntlet for people to learn theory and scales, and if that happens to but one person, then the music world will be that much better. It will also be better if people ignore everything that I say!

Just shut up and play yer guitar!

Peace

Q

[FatJeff]

Originally Posted by qsblues

Major
Minor
Melodic Minor
Harmonic Minor
Symmetric Diminished
Whole Tone
Major Pentatonic
Minor Pentatonic

That's basically 42 scales that ANY aspiring musician needs to know cold, and be able to play (and sing) from any position on the neck, starting with any note, and starting the scale from any of your fingers on your fretting hand, and be able to play them without looking at your hands. Then, you should be able to play them in position over 2 octaves, then across the neck horizontally over 3 octaves.

While you're doing this, you should work on arpeggios for all chord types corresponding to every scale above. You should work on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd inversions, starting at any point on the neck, across one and two octaves.

Did I mention that you should also know drop 2, drop 3, and drop 2+4 chords in all inversions that you can grip? Oh yeah, that too.

Yikes! That's a crapload of material! I've gotten maybe 1/10th of this stuff down in the ~ 18 mos. I've been really focusing on jazz guitar..

Time on the instrument?

[TommyD]

Miles: Why do you play such long solos?
Coltrane: I can't stop!
Miles: Take the horn out of your mouth.