Pentatonics +2 - (with 2 extra passing notes...)

[princeplanet]

Take the major pentatonic, now add the passing #2. It's a major "blues" scale right? Play it up a min 3rd and it's a (min) blues scale. Fine, but what do you call the scale that has the extra passing #4 note? It's common for both the major and minor forms.
Anyway, whatever they're names, I like to use these 7 note scales sometimes and have experimented using them in place of straight pentatonics in some typical sub scenarios. So first question, is there a reason why pent subs often don't contain these passing notes? And secondly, when trying to get to know how to use them in basic places, I have practiced them over ii-V-I 's to get a feel. Now I'm finding I prefer the pent(+2) based on the root for the ii-V but like the pent(+2) based on the 5th degree for the I chord. I also like occasionally throwing in a blues "lick" from the pent(+2) based on the min 3rd. However, When using a pent for side slipping, I like the straight pent based on the b2 against V alt chords. Thats 4 different pent based subs for a 3 chord progression. Without getting into blues progressions (which is where the fun begins, I know!), I'm interested in any other ideas involving pent based subs that others may care to share. Even ideas relating to how you may mix these scales with other scales or arps (not strictly mixing, but interchanging- you know what I mean ).

[JohnW400]

If you add a note to a pentatonic you get a hexatonic, 6 note scale.

The quickest way to make a pentatonic scale is to take any 4 note , 7th chord arpeggio and add either the 2 , 4 or 6th. each one yeilds 5 "modes" when you play the inversion

C E G B . Add #4. C E F# G B. Now play the inversions.


I usually think of 6 note scales as superimposing one triad on top of another. C and D, for example. C D E F# G A. Great Lydian sound. C and Db. C Db E F G Ab.

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by JohnW400

If you add a note to a pentatonic you get a hexatonic, 6 note scale.

The quickest way to make a pentatonic scale is to take any 4 note , 7th chord arpeggio and add either the 2 , 4 or 6th. each one yeilds 5 "modes" when you play the inversion

C E G B . Add #4. C E F# G B. Now play the inversions.


I usually think of 6 note scales as superimposing one triad on top of another. C and D, for example. C D E F# G A. Great Lydian sound. C and Db. C Db E F G Ab.

No, I mean the common pentatonics- the ones you first learn to play blues with ie, C-D-E-G-A (major) C-Eb-F-G-Bb (minor)... the extensions-#2 and #4 refer to the major mode which become #4 and #7 in minor.....

I realise you can construct pents basically at will by adding a note to a 4 note chord, but that's a little too advanced for me at this stage. I'm talking about the extra 2 notes creating say, c-d-d#-e-g-g#-a which I us to create lines for ii-V and the 5th transposition creating g-a-a#-b-d-d#-e which I like for the I chord. I like it because of the ambiguity caused by not spelling out all chord tones, it basically feels like you're playing blues type lines where you just aim to make cool sounds instead of worrying about guide tones or resolutions.

The thing is, I think I like it too much! Somebody stop me taking this thing too far!! Is there a reason I shouldn't use this sound for more than say 50% of of improvs? I'm also finding I like things based on embellished maj 13 sounds, eg, c-e-g-b-d-f-a given that it contains every chord! So if I use chromatic embellishments that sequence through this basic arp, eg : C a# b c E c# d e G f# f g B g# a b D c# c d F d# e f A f# g a C a# b (chrom approach changes direction when necessary), then I can do little wrong except maybe land an F on a downbeat against a C chord, but even then with the approach notes, it doesn't sound so bad, your ear makes you resolve it thus treating it as a sus 4 sound. It's very different to simply using a maj 13 arp, which clashes badly in too many instances for my ear at least.

With the above 2 ideas I'm freed to just blow (on gtr) over basic progressions and follow my ear as to what sounds good. After all, we've all analysed solos where we can't always make sense of why some notes "work" in certain situations.... Any thoughts on this?

[princeplanet]

anyone?

[oilywrag]

Hi princeplanet,if you want to play around with pentatonic scales then check out Dr.Ronald S.Lemos, he has a Hal Leonard book out called"Jazz Guitar soloing concepts"a pentatonic modal approach to improvisation.A good book with some sound theory behind it.Plus you can always check out a guitarist called Vic Juris on you tube he has a couple of vid on but one that deals with just what you are talking about.I think it is a guitar wourld video about 10 min long
hope you find it all interesting


Tom

[derek]

Originally Posted by oilywrag

Hi princeplanet,if you want to play around with pentatonic scales then check out Dr.Ronald S.Lemos, he has a Hal Leonard book out called"Jazz Guitar soloing concepts"a pentatonic modal approach to improvisation.A good book with some sound theory behind it.Plus you can always check out a guitarist called Vic Juris on you tube he has a couple of vid on but one that deals with just what you are talking about.I think it is a guitar wourld video about 10 min long
hope you find it all interesting


Tom

Here is the Vic Juris vid Tom mentions.

YouTube Video

[oilywrag]

Nice one Derek.Hope all is well with you

Cheers Tom

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by derek

Here is the Vic Juris vid Tom mentions.

Thanks for sharing, interesting and useful! Plus, I get to hear Vic talk! Nice guy and a great player- now we gotta add "great teacher!" He doesn't deal with the passing tones though, I guess I'll plug them into his examples and see where they rock the boat too much.....

[djangoles]

Originally Posted by derek

Here is the Vic Juris vid Tom mentions.

Don't want to hijack....but this is a great concept....thanks for sharing it

[JohnW400]

Take Vic's concept and add the b2 to the pentatonic minor on the dominant 7ths. So The Bb minor pentatonic becomes Bb B Db Eb F Ab. You could also do it on the B minor pentatonic against the C if you like.

The "'major" version would be Db Eb F Ab Bb Cb.