Sidestepping

[Patriots2006]

I have been attempting to work on this technique and it has been totally frustrating. Nothing sounds good when I attempt it. I have seen a Matt Otten video using c mixo to Bb mixo and then connecting them with melodies a half step in between. Very tasteful to my ears and a nice way to get outside the changes. Of course, I have been unable to find it again which doesn't help.
Has anyone had success with this technique and do you have any pointers on how to approach developing it. The frustration level is killing my attempts to get anything accomplished.
I don't usually think in terms of chord scales and modes. I usually improvise using arps, chromatics and folloing the guidetone lines things like that.

[mr. beaumont]

ok, honest question, not attempting to be an ass in any way.

how good are you at playing inside? because until you can resolve a line with good inside playing consistently, your outside playing will never be convincing--it's all about getting back in.

side stepping is a bitch, because in theory, it's so simple--take a bit up a half step or down, but making it work is a whole 'nuther thing, right?

one thing to try is to actually write out some lines that are in, then take sections of them, maybe four notes at a time or so, and move them "out." what you'll see right away is they might not work, as the junp back might be too abrupt. take the outside section, and set it up so that a chrmoatic passing tone leads you back in key. then resolve strong-- end your line on a third or seventh of the "chord of the moment"-- re-establishing key is the trick to making the wild stuff work-- tension and satisfying resolution.

[Patriots2006]

Well I would be lying if I said my inside playing was excellent. I seem to play better when I don't think about scales and in this case the changes are Csus/C7/Bbsus/Bb7 one chord per measure repeated so I am moving between the two mixolydian scales and when I start thinking that way my improv deteriorates. With that said I spent years practicing scales in all twelve positions but for some reason switching between fingerings for scales doesn't work well for me. I tend to go for the arrpegios and this allows more fluent movement for me. Then I add chromatics and note enclosures etc. Following guide tone lines works well for me also.
I like your suggestion on how to approach this so I will give that a try and see where it goes.
Thanks,
Rich

[mr. beaumont]

y'know, to a certain extent, you really still can work from within your comfort zone, at least visually--i mean, what is a mixolydian scale? it's a 13th chord, essentially.

at least if you find you can resolve better, it might be worth visualizing it that way when you're ending a line.

[peterja]

I don´t know the Matt Otten video, but I also had a hard time sidestepping until I realised, I do it all the time when I´m comping
If I play a minor blues it will be natural to play Eb7 - D7 - Gmin instead of D7 - D7 - Gmin...not the best example, but you get the idea.
So basicly I just did the same when improvising, and soon sidestepping came pretty natural.

[Goofsus4]

Originally Posted by peterja

I don´t know the Matt Otten video, but I also had a hard time sidestepping until I realised, I do it all the time when I´m comping
If I play a minor blues it will be natural to play Eb7 - D7 - Gmin instead of D7 - D7 - Gmin...not the best example, but you get the idea.
So basicly I just did the same when improvising, and soon sidestepping came pretty natural.

I know exactly what you mean though. I haven't experimented with sidestepping myself (too busy working out the targeted chromatic tension thing with arps right now), but when I read this post the first thing I thought of was what you just said - you do this all the time when comping blues with all the half step approach movements. I would think its the same concept really.

[timscarey]

I will often arppegiate a dominant 7th chord a half step above whatever chord I'm going to as a "lead-in" It works on any chord any time.

If you have two chords a whole-step away, as in your first example, you can use the same chord type or a dominant chord as a halfstep passing chord via arpeggios as well.

Personally, and this is just me, when people play a phrase, then play it up a halfstep just becuase... it sounds rediculous to me and quite contrived as if to say "someone once told me I can do that, so now I do it." (as I try to tell you what works.... ha)

I agree with Mr.B it's all about the resolution and making it sound melodic. The first 2 examples are what I would generally do to achieve that sound for example..

CMaj7-FMaj7
(all in 8th notes, one bar each)

e:------------------------I-------------
B:------------------------I------------
G:-----------------3-6)--I--5-4-2-----
D:---------3-(2-4--------I---------5-2-
A:-2-3-5-----------------I-------------
E:------------------------I-------------

The ( ) are an F#7 arpeggio but the meloldy resolves by halfstep to the 5th of the FMaj chord... it's all good, and some might say, a little "outside"

[bako]

In blues it is not unusual to approach a chord half step above, below or both.

---Db7//C7--B7/C7--Db7/C7Db7C7B7/C7--Gb7/F7--- etc

Nobody even thinks twice about playing in this way. Sidestepping is just a melodic version of the same process.

[oleo20]

i often side step with motifs - take a 3 or 4 note inside pattern and side step it manipulating the rhythm nots or whatever, just listen to brecker, calderazzo or any jazzer and you'll hear it!its all bout the motifs!