More Improvisation Philosophy

[Lambosoa]

A number of discussions on this board had me thinking and suddenly an idea popped into my head:

“When I know what I’m doing, then most likely my playing sucks.”

I’m essentially self-taught. Back some 15 years ago I used to gig with some pro-musicians in some obscure jazz-bar. I wasn’t (and still am not) pro, just an amateur with a decent(-ish) level. And what I played then, I was playing it really good. I was on stage, no time to think or second-guess, just must play. At it best it was all about intuition if not instinct. The conscious part of me was but part of the audience, all the playing was at a level that I couldn’t grasp myself.

Pat Metheny seems to describe a similar experience in this video:

In other words, we’re back to that “Play what you hear” thing, although that wording seems a bit simplistic to me. It also involves something like “Play ON what you hear”, or “Play WITH what you hear”. Including the “wrong notes” - they can’t really be wrong when you improvise, but you may just happen to hit a note that was not what you intended to do – you just need to go where they’re taking you.

Obviously, all of this doesn’t come falling from heaven, miraculously. It results from a sum of different experiences (musical and non-musical) and obviously, practice. To be honest, I don’t know which of my own experiences actually contributed to build my modest skills.

I’m sure all that babbling is not very interesting for those who already have a solid background; it’s more for those beginning in jazz and wondering what it’s all about, how to do it… And I’m not really helping in giving a method or a path, but I’m just trying to explain where I think you should be heading to. Knowing the destination is already a good start, I suppose.

[pierre richard]

enjoying the trip is sometimes better than arriving at the destination...

listen...listen..listen..to the great players...sing it..or hum it...when you can get it in your head and can sing it ,the last step is getting it to your fingers...

their are many wonderful sounds to be made by you... but you need to spend the time to get your ability to the point where you can make them...

time on the instrument...pierre

[JimBobWay]

Originally Posted by Lambosoa

To be honest, I don’t know which of my own experiences actually contributed to build my modest skills.

All guitarists have gone through what you are working on, and it is the pursuit of a lifetime. So many simply ask the age-old question: what notes should I play over these chord changes? You are already looking past that, to the real question: what is the music I hear, and how can I get it past all the hurdles into realization? Keep on thinking like that, and wherever music takes you, it will be a good place.

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by Lambosoa

“When I know what I’m doing, then most likely my playing sucks.”

I’m essentially self-taught. Back some 15 years ago I used to gig with some pro-musicians in some obscure jazz-bar. I wasn’t (and still am not) pro, just an amateur with a decent(-ish) level. And what I played then, I was playing it really good. I was on stage, no time to think or second-guess, just must play. At it best it was all about intuition if not instinct. The conscious part of me was but part of the audience, all the playing was at a level that I couldn’t grasp myself.

I could have written that myself, funny how many similarities with other guitarists you can find reading a forum like this.
I have been playing on and off for 50 years and still tries to develop and improve my playing. It never stops - does it?

/R

[FattMusiek]

He seems to be all about this theory of opposites. Would you consider a tritone sub chord (ex: Db7 for a G7) an opposite? Would he?

Could it be thought of as playing the opposite of what you think would work?

Reminds me of George from Seinfeld.

[oilywrag]

At the end of the day we only have 12 notes to play with,some in the tonal center,some outside notes.Depending on the type of piece you are playing plus what mood you are in at the time will all have an influence on your note choice.This may be a simple way to look at it but we are all individuals with our own likes and dislikes.If we all played the same then there would be no room for freedom of expression. The more experienced will know what sounds right and that should free you to be able to push the envelope even more.Or does that knowledge make one fearfull,could it be the talented novice with no pre conceptions is musically free to play??????

Enough from me cheers Tom