How to not think too much?

[scouse303]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I used to know Miles said that

What did Miles say ?

[GuitaRoland]

I like the way this thread developed , thanks to all that participated!

/R

[Reg]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

I like the way this thread developed , thanks to all that participated!

/R

The subject was a great topic... we all strive to keep our brains out of the way of our creativity... the older I get the more I realize, it's my lack of intelligence... Reg

[abdke99]

Originally Posted by GuitaRoland

What is the best way of not thinking to much of what you play? Thinking too much seems to take energy from, at least, my playing.

I mean thinking about scales, modes, notes, intervals or whatever. How to get a nice flow and really feel that this is improvisation and not a theoretical way of treating your instrument, guitar in our cases?


/Roland

hi roland, i have posted this link on forum before,its john abercrombie lesson, i think that you can find some answers, it helped me so here it is
YouTube - John Abercrombie - Jazz Guitar Improvisation 1
enjoy

[GuitaRoland]

Originally Posted by abdke99

hi roland, i have posted this link on forum before,its john abercrombie lesson, i think that you can find some answers, it helped me so here it is
YouTube - John Abercrombie - Jazz Guitar Improvisation 1
enjoy

Thanks for that link - interesting!

/R

[Jazzyteach65]

Originally Posted by Goofsus4

If improvising freely is your goal, then you probably need to woodshed for quite sometime on just that - improvisation. Just loop various chord progressions or song changes and just play over them endlessly using arps, the scales you know, and chromatics by ear. Just keep playing, and don't worry if you hit bad notes or you can't always play the line you hear in your head, just keep trying. Don't stop - play over a chord or a vamp or a set of changes for two hours at a time. Do this 15-20 hours a week for a year. Unless you are unemployed, you will likely have to cut back on learning songs and maintaining a repertoire, but if improvisation is what you want to do, you've got to develop that critical mass. I guarantee you that if you focus on this exclusively, in six months you will see big time results in terms of not needing to think to be able to play a line through a set of changes. Repetition is the way the human brain learns something well enough to go on auto-pilot. It's the only way. It's why all the greats always are quoted as saying some version of "learn the theory, then forget it."

When I first stated playing guitar, I honestly had no idea that it was going to take years to get anywhere with it. But unless you are some sort of musical genius, or just want to copy other people's solos, it's going to take a long time and a LOT of practice for it to come easily.

I have never thought of doing this. I think we are all striving to play what our head hears. The goal i guess is to exploit every possibility in our head, and create a fluid personal vocab as well as new, spontanoues phrases. I asked Jake Hanlon about this same issue the other day, over-thinking. I told him I was too oververwhelmed by trying to play every possibility and practice every possibility all at once. I really wanted to and still want to play simple, two-note or three-note melodic motifs and ideas. He told me to think melodies and pitch collection instead of scales and arps

[franco6719]

I'm not really an "expert" in either musical creativity or neuroscience. I (extremely) often have the same problem that is being discussed in this thread however. In any case, while watching a very interesting documentary on autistic savants on the "boob tube" yesterday, I got to thinking about how it could be possible for someone of middle age or beyond to develop more creativity (or release some universal latent creativity if that's what it really is). First thing I would recommend then, based on what seems to be the current scientific thinking, sounds very simple but it can be extremely difficult depending on your social environment: do things spontaneously as much as possible. In other words, improvise in your life and this may change how you approach music. You might even want to stop playing for a week or so and then come back to it with a freshness and renewed enthusiasm. Change your practice routine once in a while. Change something. Do something differently.

On a related note, I seem (to myself anyway) to play any tune better when I think about how the music actually makes me feel emotionally.

[franco6719]

Originally Posted by squider

I just want to second bkdavidson's post which is spot on!! I studied scales and arpeggios for years from many books with very little improvement in my soloing. I was beginning to give up hope but once I began learning solo's I loved, my ear gradually developed to the point I could really 'hear' those sounds over the chords. I can now go my own way without too much thinking. I thought this method would just make me good at playing other people solos but it really does improve your ear. Ear training is the key!!

I think this is helping me as well. Although it is obviously a gradual process too.

[Jazzyteach65]

Originally Posted by franco6719

I'm not really an "expert" in either musical creativity or neuroscience. I (extremely) often have the same problem that is being discussed in this thread however. In any case, while watching a very interesting documentary on autistic savants on the "boob tube" yesterday, I got to thinking about how it could be possible for someone of middle age or beyond to develop more creativity (or release some universal latent creativity if that's what it really is). First thing I would recommend then, based on what seems to be the current scientific thinking, sounds very simple but it can be extremely difficult depending on your social environment: do things spontaneously as much as possible. In other words, improvise in your life and this may change how you approach music. You might even want to stop playing for a week or so and then come back to it with a freshness and renewed enthusiasm. Change your practice routine once in a while. Change something. Do something differently.

On a related note, I seem (to myself anyway) to play any tune better when I think about how the music actually makes me feel emotionally.

Franco, I have a private student (I actually teach him today) who is in my guitar ensemble and takes private lessons, and he has Apsperger's. When I first met him, I could not believe how fast he absorbed concepts, and he would barely read the examples, pieces or pay attention, yet he had progressed just as fast, if not faster than any of my students. I asked his grandmother if she recognized his penchant for music and his ability, she replied "He's autistic."

To this day, (two years of teaching him) he is one of my brightest students, figures out things aurally ect, but when it comes to class time, he barely pays attention, he's in his own world, yet when playing with the ensemble, he never complains, has his timing, chords and melody correct. It's crazy what the kid figures out on his own.

Your approach to stepping away from music, revamping the routine or approaching it with a different mindset is refreshing. Like I know think of lines and melodies in vocab, not scales and arps.

[Jazzyteach65]

Sometimes, and this is my new found opinion, simplicity breeds creativity. The kind that you really don't have to think about.

I took "All the Things You Are," and worked half a chorus. Rather than starting out firing long scaler lines or thinking too much, I gave my ears a chance to speak. I started with an F- triad, then my ears told me to play a g dim triad over the Bb-, something I would have NEVER played had I been "thinking" scales ect. What ensued was a call-and response and great motivic developement, just using three or four notes per change! Rather than connecting to any of the altered, dim, ect scales over dominants, I made the altered tones stick out and connected resolved them to the I. I think I am on the right track thinking in terms of melodies and pitches rather than complexed lines ect. Don't get me wrong, those have there place, but for now I will stick to easy ideas, letting my ears do the work

[franco6719]

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

Franco, I have a private student (I actually teach him today) who is in my guitar ensemble and takes private lessons, and he has Apsperger's. When I first met him, I could not believe how fast he absorbed concepts, and he would barely read the examples, pieces or pay attention, yet he had progressed just as fast, if not faster than any of my students. I asked his grandmother if she recognized his penchant for music and his ability, she replied "He's autistic."

To this day, (two years of teaching him) he is one of my brightest students, figures out things aurally ect, but when it comes to class time, he barely pays attention, he's in his own world, yet when playing with the ensemble, he never complains, has his timing, chords and melody correct. It's crazy what the kid figures out on his own.

Your approach to stepping away from music, revamping the routine or approaching it with a different mindset is refreshing. Like I know think of lines and melodies in vocab, not scales and arps.

That's a fascinating story, Jteach. Those cases are just mind-boggling really.

However, I don't want to leave the impression to people who are newbies to guitar or jazz guitar that I recommend (or someone important!) that you should necessarily step away from playing for a while and then you will be a creative genius or something like that. It's just one possibility, among many other things that I have heard of or thought about that might shake things up a bit. But everyone has to practice and play a lot!! (not just my opinion)

[franco6719]

I'm going through a kind of transitional period right now, I think. Lately, I notice that it often helps to simply slow things down and really listen to the beauty of certain chord progressions. I find ballads very important and they force some kind of melodic focus or development. I also discovered that I actually LIKE them more than fast bebop tunes. It's interesting to even play some fast bebop line over a ballad for contrast.

But, anyway, I used to hate ballads because I felt like I couldn't play them. Now, I enjoy listening to Central Park West more than Giant Steps, for example.

Franco, have you ever checked out the book by one of Warne Marsh's students called 'A Jazz Life'? He talks a lot about how Warne practiced. It is exactly like you are talking about. Very slow and deliberate. I am attaching the link, if you are interested. I think Warne is a man amongst men so I dig it like crazy. There is an entire section on how he taught near the end.

A Jazz Life Scribd Version

[Jazzyteach65]

6:40 into the video, PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT JIMMY SAYS about "thinking scales"
http://www.jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com/public/597.cfm

[franco6719]

Originally Posted by jeffstocksmusic

Franco, have you ever checked out the book by one of Warne Marsh's students called 'A Jazz Life'? He talks a lot about how Warne practiced. It is exactly like you are talking about. Very slow and deliberate. I am attaching the link, if you are interested. I think Warne is a man amongst men so I dig it like crazy. There is an entire section on how he taught near the end.

A Jazz Life Scribd Version

Very interesting!! Thanks for the link, Jeffstock.