Economy picking will affect alternate?

[rejikumar]

I was quite comfortable with alternate picking till recently. Then I watched jimmy bruno's video and started practicing that sweep style. Now Im improving in that. But my command in alternate picking is going down. I think it is because my attention has gone to a different style. Early I used to play bluegrass patterns comfortably with alternate. Now it doesn't come fluently. Is it possible to develope both these picking styles same time? Any solution?

[Decapriology1]

"Ecomomy Picking" (Although, it is really the "slur-alternate system") is already 75% alternate picking. Strict alternate picking don't really make it in jazz. Too stiff in many cases.

-TD

[derek]

Originally Posted by Decapriology1

"Ecomomy Picking" (Although, it is really the "slur-alternate system") is already 75% alternate picking. Strict alternate picking don't really make it in jazz. Too stiff in many cases.

-TD

So true. Really, ecomony picking + alternating picking will get you further no matter what style you are playing.

[rejikumar]

Thank you very much. Now the thing is clear. REJI

[jazzgtrl4]

I just ordered the Bruno book/DVD. how do you like it.?

[rejikumar]

I bought the no nonsense jazz guitar video. It is generally simple to understand. His style is beautiful.

[hugojkd]

Here's a couple of excellent articles that deal with economy picking:

All The Aspects Of Picking. Part1 | Lessons @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

All The Aspects Of Picking. Part 2 | Lessons @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

[C.A.JO.]

I use economy picking, too. Far more energy-saving than alternate picking.

Modfication:
I use alternate picking when playing on a single string.
I use the sweep motion when changing strings. No matter how many.

By doing it this way, no planning or sequencing is needed. With a couple of months practice it felt as natural as some say alternate picking do. The result? I was able to play 20-30% faster than I ever was with alternate picking without breaking a sweat. The right hand doesn't move as much as in alternate picking when you economy pick.

[jazzgtrl4]

Originally Posted by C.A.JO.

I use economy picking, too. Far more energy-saving than alternate picking.

Modfication:
I use alternate picking when playing on a single string.
I use the sweep motion when changing strings. No matter how many.

By doing it this way, no planning or sequencing is needed. With a couple of months practice it felt as natural as some say alternate picking do. The result? I was able to play 20-30% faster than I ever was with alternate picking without breaking a sweat. The right hand doesn't move as much as in alternate picking when you economy pick.

Right, thanks for the info. So i dove into Jimmy Brunos book. i havent been doing it long a week or so and i feel like im going backward. I know thats probably commen. Seem like the same thing with the original poster my alternate seems to be suffering. I play music fulltime so adjusting this at the gig or trying to go back to alternate because i dont have the economy down is somewhat awkward if you know what i mean. I know this is going to take time and i can see that the speed in my right hand is already coming. It gets tricky sometimes applieing it to licks and stuff i already know. thanks

[gravitas]

Economy/"sweep" style picking is more efficient in certain situations than alternate picking, and alternate picking is more efficient in other situations than economy. If you find your aptitude for alternate picking is going down, ask yourself this: who cares? If your goal is a streamlined and effective picking technique, unneccessary aspects of your picking regimen will fall by the wayside, and you'll be a better player for it.

[C.A.JO.]

Originally Posted by jazzgtrl4

Right, thanks for the info. So i dove into Jimmy Brunos book. i havent been doing it long a week or so and i feel like im going backward. I know thats probably commen. Seem like the same thing with the original poster my alternate seems to be suffering. I play music fulltime so adjusting this at the gig or trying to go back to alternate because i dont have the economy down is somewhat awkward if you know what i mean. I know this is going to take time and i can see that the speed in my right hand is already coming. It gets tricky sometimes applieing it to licks and stuff i already know. thanks

I see. When I made the "switch" I had probably about 2 months where I felt my technique was getting a bit worse. I was gigging regularly, but when I played live my habits stuck with me.

Just practice the economy picking, and play live like you normally would. Once you get the hang of it (it took me 2 months), then your right hand has massively improved, and it will sneak in bit by bit in all playing situations. It takes time to break old habits.

[jazzgtrl4]

Originally Posted by C.A.JO.

I see. When I made the "switch" I had probably about 2 months where I felt my technique was getting a bit worse. I was gigging regularly, but when I played live my habits stuck with me.

Just practice the economy picking, and play live like you normally would. Once you get the hang of it (it took me 2 months), then your right hand has massively improved, and it will sneak in bit by bit in all playing situations. It takes time to break old habits.

HI CAJO. thanks for the reply. Well last night at a gig, it was a background solo gig i do too tracks. Perfect situation to "practice" to a point, if you know what i mean. I finally felt myself sneaking it in here and there and i know this can be done.. Thanks for the words of encouragement. I can see the advantages in this forsure.

[princeplanet]

I only rely on economy picking when alternate won't do, I don't wanna get too lazy as I find alternating still gives maximum control over dynamic control, ie, I can accent any note at will, which is much harder if you are sweeping and slurring.....

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

I only rely on economy picking when alternate won't do, I don't wanna get too lazy as I find alternating still gives maximum control over dynamic control, ie, I can accent any note at will, which is much harder if you are sweeping and slurring.....

Unless you name is Holdsworth or Scofield!

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by P.J.

Unless you name is Holdsworth or Scofield!

Too true! But there's something about a nice solid struck note when you really wanna be emphatic, dontcha reckon?

Anyway, I also wanted to say that playing famous Parker solos (around 300 bpm) remains the most challenging test for a guitarists skill in employing his/her picking. Presents you with so many choices, many which make for easier playing, some harder ones which just sound better when mastered. This is where I learned that alternating, even when not 100% necessary, yielded better horn like phrasing (ironically enough). Playing things the "easy" way usually come out sounding too "guitaristic" if you know what I mean. Horns and pianos have much richer and dynamic rhythmic phrasing than most guitarists for this reason.

The thing that's really special about Bird solos is the rhythmic accents, take the notes away and you hear a drum solo. Take the notes away from a guitarist, however, and you usually have: "deedeeleedeeleedeedeeleeleedeeleedeedeedeeleeleed eeleelee"...... zzzzzzzz...

[markerhodes]

Here's a couple of excellent articles that deal with economy picking:

All The Aspects Of Picking. Part1 | Lessons @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

All The Aspects Of Picking. Part 2 | Lessons @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

Thanks for posting those links--I enjoyed those articles. I have always had trouble with my picking--actually, with holding onto picks!---and so I tried to go strict alternate to make it at least consistent but I've run into lines that give me trouble in certain spots EVERY TIME and now I realize it's because I should've used economy picking instead of alternate...
By the way, I've read that Charlie Christian played with nearly all downstrokes---can you imagine????

[gravitas]

I feel like picking in general is misunderstood. If anyone's had a look at Troy Grady's documentary, they've seen firsthand that most of the players who claim that they're "alternate pickers" or "sweep pickers" actually use a battery of techniques, and the true virtuosos switch between them all freely when the situation requires it. Circular Picking, Elbow Picking, Alternate, Hybrid, Economy, Sweep, Shoulder Picking, Bracing, anchoring... They're all essential aspects of the same discipline. You can't just do one independently, or you're selling yourself short.