playing behind a vocalist

Jazzyteach65 · #1 11-10-2009, 11:47 AM

So I have been fortunate enough to have met, auditioned for and landed a gig playing behind a vocalist. This is some serious shit, because her husband is a music promoter, and she has huge Hollywood ties, including the Hilton family. Her former comper-a piano player left, so she needed a new one asap and found and hired me.

What advice would you give to someone who is playing in a duet situation? I have already had to transpose tunes to match her voice. She has a list of about 100 standards to work from, tunes I've mostly played. She is giving me all the liberties, like soloing, creating intros and vamps. Do I use devices like call and response (I tried it last rehearsal with Stormy Weather) should I use walking basslines over uptempo stuff? do I shorten my chords to three notes even without a bass player?l

mr. beaumont · #2 11-10-2009, 12:22 PM

go out and buy those joe and ella CD's (and the stuff barney and al viola, i think, did with julie london) and STUDY UP!!!!

ah, the duo/singer gig. can sound like fun, can sound terrifying...let me tell you about my experience so that you can learn from it.

i had been doing solo gigs for about two years when i was approached by a singer who asked me to work with her. she was doing corporate gigs, weddings, good paying stuff, so of course i said yes, figuring "hell, this will be easy--it's just like playing solo only i don't have to play melody on the head anymore!"

thank god she wanted to rehearse a few times so our first time playing together wasn't in public--cuz it would have been a trainwreck.

so, from my mistakes--here's what i learned.

1. yes, learn those transpositions. but don't just learn her key--learn a half step and step lower too. She arrived at a wedding gig once with a little bit of a cold, we we're soundchecking just before guests arrived for cocktail hour, and she wasn't quite hitting a high note. "take that one down a little bit," she said. Not being ready to transpose on the fly, i frantically went thru the set writing changes on cocktail napkins!

2. Yes, the singer's singing words, but treat them like any other instrument. this means full six note chords with a kinds of fun extensions are only a good idea if you are SURE what she's gonna do. small voicings and walking bass are a good way to start out, until you can get a read on what her ideas are.

3. intros...get to the V7 to set up the I. She needs something to give her the first note--no matter how good she is. We did songs without an intro where i'd play the I quietly for her to adjust to, then jump right into the tune.

4. solos--ah! the fun part. all the things you'd do when playing a solo gig apply--try stop time, soloing in block chords, call and response, a chorus of complex walking bass--whatever. make sure you come out cleanly and on the beat--she may be looking at you--she might be interacting with the audience.

have fun! and worse comes to worse, have her call me

Jazzyteach65 · #3 11-10-2009, 12:37 PM

well Mr B, thanks

I already have that Ella/Joe stuff, and a lot of his stuff is chordal fills. I am toying around with playing tunes with a different feel, like bossas and Calypso stuff. Perhaps the hardest part will be our interaction on the bandstand, because I still need to get used to her nuances. But it's stuff like during last rehearsal we did "My Funny Valentine" in A minor with a latin feel, then out of nowhere I swung and uptempo'd the bridge, and she wasn't lost at all! She dug that and asked if we could play it again.

Unfortunately, I am not the best at walking a bassline. I do know how to solo using block chords, and dorian harmony, but I wanna be able to be like Lenny Breau and comp and solo simultaneously. One of his former students lives close to me. I think I should ask him about it.

Thankfully, we don't start gigging until the start of next year

wizard3739 · #4 11-10-2009, 12:41 PM

Since you will be a duo (no base player) you will be able to use full chords and bass lines. A lot will depend on what type of vocalist she is and what type of music she likes to sing. Chord melodies will be good when she is not singing and you have to be careful not to overdo the chords while she is singing. Your job (you may already know this) is to do everything you can to enhance her performance. Some vocalists have a hard time picking up a good starting note when your intro is complex and often you will need a bit of the melody in the intro. Many vocalists like to delay their first few notes to add some tension to the song. You should be there with a solid beat and also be prepared to support whatever type of ending she comes up with. The vocalist I have worked with for many years often changes the way she ends a song in accordance with her interpretation (often improvised) of the song for each performance. Comping for a good vocalist can be a great experience for a guitarist because a good vocalist will have the kind of phrasing that can really add to your improvising ability. A natural benefit of playing behind a good vocalist is you may start to emulate some of her phrasing when you are improvising. Also, if you listen to Joe Pass/Ella Fitzgerald and Julie London/Barney Kessel, you may pick up some really good pointers on comping for a vocalist. I hope these comments are helpful to your new comping gig.

wiz

musicalbodger · #5 11-10-2009, 04:48 PM

JT, if she's a good singer you're a lucky man. Relax man, you got the gig. Relax again and enjoy the interplay. You obviously must be able to cut it or she wouldn't have hired you. Go and enjoy it.

Jazzyteach65 · #6 11-11-2009, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wizard3739

Comping for a good vocalist can be a great experience for a guitarist because a good vocalist will have the kind of phrasing that can really add to your improvising ability. A natural benefit of playing behind a good vocalist is you may start to emulate some of her phrasing when you are improvising.

wiz

This is great advice. I have to listen to her very carefully. The thing is is that I come from an academic background to playing standards, as I have studied jazz guitar privately, on the collegiate level and now with a true master, Joe Lano. Brenda, the vocalist, know her standards but really doesn't know any theory. However, she is very responsive with our interaction. Example: last rehearsal we played "My Funny Valentine" with a bossa feel, then for the bridge, I swung the feel. She responded so well, and started swinging her articulation of lyrics during the bridge. I didn't even have to nod. She called me yesterday and said "be ready to cut a cd come January." HOLY SHIT-I am a bit nearvous!

Jake Hanlon · #7 11-11-2009, 02:51 PM

In my experience (relatively ample as it would be) of workign with Singers things are really simple as long as you are able to keep light of a few things....

1. You are not the show. No one cares what you play except for your Duet vocalist because she needs you. I don't know many singers that go it alone with any level of skill except for the elite. She hired you because she needs what you bring to the table. Be aware of that. Be aware that no one is going to care about what you know that is listening. YOu need to play simple, beautiful and supportive things.

2. Without anyone to back you up you are now the whole band. Remember that, you need to be the bassist pianist and drummer and you need to react, interact with what she's going to do. Singers know their songs to the point of obsession and she's going to probably do exactly what she hears in her head and with hopefully a good deal of precision. You should aspire to be on that level. Be aware of things like... phrasing, reworking melodies and once you get comfortable be able to know when she wants to be led through tunes or when she wants to lead you.

That last part is really important I found. Some singers want you to play through everything and some want you to wait, pause, whatever. It changes from singer to singer and so in the end the only thing I can say is be prepared for everything and there is no 1 way to do this gig.

Most Vocalists are also quite insecure about instrumentalists because they must fight so hard to be excepted. Be the guy that makes her want to play with you and therefore you get to play with her and make some bread.

I said to a class yesterday that if you can learn to put up with the drama that can come with singers (of either gender) and actually make music with them it's the most satisfying work outside of your own music. People appreciate it, people pay for it, it's art and it's fun.

derek · #8 11-12-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon

In my experience (relatively ample as it would be) of workign with Singers things are really simple as long as you are able to keep light of a few things....

1. You are not the show. No one cares what you play except for your Duet vocalist because she needs you. I don't know many singers that go it alone with any level of skill except for the elite. She hired you because she needs what you bring to the table. Be aware of that. Be aware that no one is going to care about what you know that is listening. YOu need to play simple, beautiful and supportive things.

2. Without anyone to back you up you are now the whole band. Remember that, you need to be the bassist pianist and drummer and you need to react, interact with what she's going to do. Singers know their songs to the point of obsession and she's going to probably do exactly what she hears in her head and with hopefully a good deal of precision. You should aspire to be on that level. Be aware of things like... phrasing, reworking melodies and once you get comfortable be able to know when she wants to be led through tunes or when she wants to lead you.

That last part is really important I found. Some singers want you to play through everything and some want you to wait, pause, whatever. It changes from singer to singer and so in the end the only thing I can say is be prepared for everything and there is no 1 way to do this gig.

Most Vocalists are also quite insecure about instrumentalists because they must fight so hard to be excepted. Be the guy that makes her want to play with you and therefore you get to play with her and make some bread.

I said to a class yesterday that if you can learn to put up with the drama that can come with singers (of either gender) and actually make music with them it's the most satisfying work outside of your own music. People appreciate it, people pay for it, it's art and it's fun.

Since you are not in the habit of quoting yourself Jake, I thought I would do it. I think the above is so right on. Frankly, I can't think of a better gig than backing a really good singer. No other band drama, no other splits, easy set up/break down, and you get an incredible experience being the whole band as Jake says.

It is the only thing I can think of that appeals to me more than playing solo. Good luck with it.

Jazzyteach65 · #9 11-12-2009, 09:56 AM

Here is the song list from which we have to work with for gigs:
1. Nature Boy
2. Summertime
3. Night and Day
4. Stardust
5. The Way You Look Tonight
6. Satin Doll
7. How High The Moon
8. Misty
9. Green Dolphin St.
10. Body and Soul
11. Embraceable You
12. My Funny Valentine
13. Stormy Weather
14. Days Of Wine and Roses
15. Ain't Misbehavin'
16. As Time Goes By
17. All Of Me
18. I Can't Give You Anything But Love
19. I Won't Dance
20. I'll Be Seeing you
21. This Can't Be Love
22. Good Morning Heartache
23. The Island
24. It's Only A Paper Moon
25. Maiden Voyage
26. Spain
27. Our Love Is Here To Stay
28. One Note Samba
29. Take Five
30. Everything Must Change
31. Bewitched
32. Cry Me a River
33. Let's Face The Music and Dance
34. I've Got The World On a String
35. Route 66
36. Don't Get Around Much Anymore
37. Cheek To Cheek
38. I Left My Heart In San Francisco
39. Fly Me To The Moon
40. Love Me Or Leave Me
41. Teach Me Tonight

NOW HERE ARE THE ONES SHE WANTS TO RECORD ON THE ALBUM:
1. Nature Boy
2. Night and Day
3. Embraceable You
4. Stormy Weather
5. Body and Soul
6. The Island
7. Since I Fell For You
8. Teach Me Tonight
9. Bewitched
10. I'll Be Seeing You
11. Everything Must Change
12. Let's Face The Music And Dance

I cannot reiterate enough how this woman has SERIOUS connections with big names and has big aspirations. She is planning on us touring Tokyo, Milan, Paris and Chicago. I know I shouldn't be scared, but the only venues I've ever gigged at are coffee houses and elementary schools

derek · #10 11-12-2009, 10:12 AM

Well, we know what you will being doing for the next few weeks! Go get'em.

Stackabones · #11 11-12-2009, 03:07 PM

Keep it simple -- the beat, the harmony, the melody. You can go to town on your breaks, but when she's singing don't play an alt chord when a simple dom7 will do. Imagine a table set for a great dinner. You're the table, she's the great dinner. Nobody pays attention to the table, but you've got to have one to serve that dinner.

Remember that the guitar is a transposing instrument (written one octave above what it sounds) -- so when you give her her note, make sure it's in the correct octave.

btw, Gerald Moore has a great book about accompanying called The Unashamed Accompanist. Though it's geared toward classical music, especially art song, and it discusses various aspects of piano technique, it offers valuable insights. Tough to track down, so try InterLibrary Loan from your local public library.

Michael Keller · #12 11-16-2009, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

I know I shouldn't be scared, but the only venues I've ever gigged at are coffee houses and elementary schools

Just keep in mind she's already hired you. Not based on what she thinks you can do, but what she's already HEARD you do- people sometimes forget that. Whatever you were playing during the audition got you the gig- now you just need to continue with it, and refine it as you get to know her singing better.
Best of luck, and enjoy it!

Jazzyteach65 · #13 12-10-2009, 11:00 PM

we had a five hour rehearsal today. Fortunately we also now have a bassist.Now I need advice on voice selection when I comp

GodinFan · #14 12-10-2009, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

I cannot reiterate enough how this woman has SERIOUS connections with big names and has big aspirations. She is planning on us touring Tokyo, Milan, Paris and Chicago. I know I shouldn't be scared, but the only venues I've ever gigged at are coffee houses and elementary schools

Make sure your passport is up to date! You even need one to get across the Canada/U.S. border now.

Jazzyteach65 · #15 12-10-2009, 11:51 PM

You need one to go to Canada? Wow, I need to go to the consulate to update it.

gersdal · #16 12-11-2009, 03:28 AM

Surprised to find this discussion under Improvisation and not under Comping. I guess I should not read to much into this, but my advice would be to comp behind the singer and not improvise.

With a bassist I would go for comping by rootless voicings. There is a lot of good stuff at WholeNote - The On-Line Guitar Community - with guitar lessons OLGA guitar tab music chords scales and other goodies...

Joe Dalton · #17 12-11-2009, 06:08 AM

Tuck and Pattie, one of the best examples.

FatJeff · #18 12-11-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gersdal

Surprised to find this discussion under Improvisation and not under Comping. I guess I should not read to much into this, but my advice would be to comp behind the singer and not improvise.

With a bassist I would go for comping by rootless voicings. There is a lot of good stuff at WholeNote - The On-Line Guitar Community - with guitar lessons OLGA guitar tab music chords scales and other goodies...

That is a good lesson, but I hate how that site doesn't give a printer-friendly version. Having to navigate through literally 40 pages, each one containing just a couple of chords, is really frustrating.

gersdal · #19 12-11-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatJeff

That is a good lesson, but I hate how that site doesn't give a printer-friendly version. Having to navigate through literally 40 pages, each one containing just a couple of chords, is really frustrating.

I'm halfway to transfering them to GuitarPro. I could send you a pdf of that (or the guitarpro file).

FatJeff · #20 12-11-2009, 10:42 AM

A PDF would be great! Thanks.

gersdal · #21 12-12-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatJeff

A PDF would be great! Thanks.

Here's the pdf.

gersdal · #22 12-15-2009, 04:28 PM

Jeff Brent kindly checked my pdf for typos, and an updated version of this pdf can now be found on his lessons page:
WholeNote - The On-Line Guitar Community - with guitar lessons OLGA guitar tab music chords scales and other goodies...

Hope this is usefull.

FatJeff · #23 12-15-2009, 04:40 PM

Thanks! This is great - exactly what I was looking for.

Bigmagic · #24 12-16-2009, 08:31 AM

I love the songlist, Ella and Joe great advice best ever guitar vocal duo IMHO(Sorry Tuck & Patti). If you have the chance to rehearse, I would try and determine which spaces to fill and which ones to leave. That setlist already says your a lot more ready for the job than I am so I'll just wish you luck I look forward to your followups. Thanks

Jeff Brent · #25 01-02-2010, 10:05 PM

Gerhard did an excellent job turning those rootless jazz chord sequences into notation and tablature and deserves to be highly commended for his hard work and dedication!

You may access both his work and mine by clicking on the links below:

Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences
Jeff Brent's Rootless ii-V-I Guitar Chord Sequences in guitar grid format on WholeNote.com. The Bill Evans closed rootless ii-V-I chord voicing system for piano - revoiced open for jazz guitar. Special thanks to Randall Carlson and Brian Prunka for proofreading and suggestions.

Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences (pdf- 9 pgs)
Same material as above, but formatted in standard music notation and tablature (pdf). Special thanks to Gerhard Ersdal for taking the time to put this together.

Rootless Minor 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences
Jeff Brent's Rootless Minor ii7b5 - V7alt - im9 (or im69) Guitar Chord Sequences in guitar grid format on WholeNote.com. A continuation of the Evans' style rootless chord system for fingering ii-V-I progressions on guitar above.

Rootless Minor 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences (pdf - 4 pgs)
Same material as above, but formatted in standard music notation and tab (pdf). Special thanks to Gerhard Ersdal for taking the time to put this notation/tab document together.

Another collaborator (Joe Bianco) is currently formatting a version of these materials that analyzes the chord components of each grip in the sequences and cross-references with their rootless bIIV7alt substitute chords. Very cool stuff (but very time consuming to format).

As soon as Joe has finished up his documents (and they have been proofread) I will also post the links here.

Thank you all for you interest, and Happy New Year!

Jeff Brent

JohnW400 · #26 01-02-2010, 11:26 PM

Hello Jeff,

Welcome to this forum.

I see you on AAJ. (I'm not a memeber there, I just check it out once in a while to see what's going on in the non guitar world.) I'm sure you'll see posts here from other AAJ members like Jake Hanlon, Randalljazz and John Horne. Even Ed Byrne pops in once in a while.

Anyway, have a look around. We do get some intersting conversations going and we are , I must add, a quite civil group for the most part.

Jeff Brent · #27 01-22-2010, 08:51 PM

This "Bill Evans style rootless chords voiced for guitar" that I originally posted on wholenote.com has generated a great deal of interest, not only here at jazzguitar.be, but elsewhere as well.

Two jazz guitarists (Gerhard Ersdal [gersdal] and Joe Bianco [funnyval]) took it upon themselves to create derivative works by re-formatting the original materials I had posted at Wholenote.com (which has had almost 9,000 hits in the last couple of months).

In Gerhard's case, he tabbed out all the grips and put them into standard notation (a Herculean effort).

But Joe Bianco really went to town with these. He streamlined them, slicked 'em up and made interactive comparative analyses of the chord components!

Joe's "Online ii-V-I Tutor" frankly blows my mind! This is the best exposition of guitar chords (rootless or otherwise) that I have ever seen in my life!!!

Just click on a set of voicings on the left navigation bar that you'd like to check out, and THEN instantaneously compare the chord elements by hitting any one of the 9 buttons at the bottom center:

Rootless ii-V-I Tutor

This is absolutely AMAZING!!! (imho)

As I've mentioned many times, if I had been able to find a book that contained these rootless voicings for guitar (and believe me, I looked and looked), I would have simply shelled out the twenty bucks or whatever and saved myself the hundreds of hours that it took to work these up from scratch.

Never in my wildest dreams, though, did I expect for collaborators with the expertise and professionalism of Messrs. Bianco and Ersdal to come out of the woodwork and take this over the top. This is a project that has really blossomed into something that will benefit generations of guitarists the world over.

Here is the link to Gerhard's tablature (pdf - 9 pages):
Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences pdf

Here is the link to my original grids at Wholenote.com:
Rootless Major 2-5-1 Jazz Chord Fingering Sequences

If you know any guitarists that could benefit from these voicings, please forward the above URLs to them

Best Wishes,

Jeff Brent

wizard3739 · #28 01-22-2010, 10:21 PM

Great Links! Thank you Jeff!

wiz

gersdal · #29 01-23-2010, 04:21 AM

Very impressive work by Joe Bianco. I loved his way of presenting these voicings. Thanks a bunch!

rafapak · #30 01-24-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzyteach65

Unfortunately, I am not the best at walking a bassline. I do know how to solo using block chords, and dorian harmony, but I wanna be able to be like Lenny Breau and comp and solo simultaneously. One of his former students lives close to me. I think I should ask him about it.

Thankfully, we don't start gigging until the start of next year

are there any videos on youtube of breau comping and soloing simultaneously. I have never seen this technique and would like to see or hear it being played.