Robert Conti's Ticket To Improv - Green Dolphin Street

[losaltosjoe]

I'm in,

There was some talk about the chords and melody to these tunes. How do you feel about discussing these as we learn the solo. I had thought we should concentrate on just the solo, but I am wondering if we should pull it all together as we go through?

Hi Andy -- I'm conflicted on how far to deviate from (augment?) the Conti TTI learning material. Discussing the form of the songs (e.g., pointing out all of the ii-V's in Satin Doll) seems perfectly appropriate. Spending time learning the melody to Satin Doll perhaps is out of scope. I'm even wondering if my posts of the full song (head + solo) is leading us off track. Having a clear mission (learn the lines and how to reuse them) will allow us to maintain focus and momentum. That being said, I am open to all suggestions and look forward to sharing ideas with this group.

Off Topic: I found the TTI solo for Autumn Leaves to be really challenging. I worked on it a couple of years ago and it took me quite a bit of time to get it down. I plan to start the relearning process in the next couple of days.

Cheers,
Joe

[lawson-stone]

Hi Andy -- I'm conflicted on how far to deviate from (augment?) the Conti TTI learning material. Discussing the form of the songs (e.g., pointing out all of the ii-V's in Satin Doll) seems perfectly appropriate. Spending time learning the melody to Satin Doll perhaps is out of scope. I'm even wondering if my posts of the full song (head + solo) is leading us off track. Having a clear mission (learn the lines and how to reuse them) will allow us to maintain focus and momentum. That being said, I am open to all suggestions and look forward to sharing ideas with this group.

Off Topic: I found the TTI solo for Autumn Leaves to be really challenging. I worked on it a couple of years ago and it took me quite a bit of time to get it down. I plan to start the relearning process in the next couple of days.

Cheers,
Joe

I am torn on this, because I like the usefulness of noting how a line that works in one place can work in another, and I enjoy hearing the kind of "quasi-performance" clips of the head and the solo. To me that makes the solo make sense with the tune. That said, I think yo make a good point here.

One thing we could do is post such clips to the "Songs" thread and just inform everyone here. I think it's great to post our playing. Lord knows, we need more playing on this forum as a whole, and a lot less bickering. "Too busy playing too have time to fight" could be a great motto.

On the difficulty of the next solo: is 8 measures per week going to be too much? On the Jimmy Raney group we only cover 4 measures per week, but those can be really hard solos. Or maybe if we do 8 measures a week, but do 2 weeks, then a week of catch up, then 2 more weeks?

I'm not the leader of this group, but somebody has to post the sticky thread, and I'll happily set that up and put up any schedule or plan that you guys like. We don't want to leave behind beginners, nor do we want to bore or frustrate people who can work a little faster.

Not sure what my question is here... oh I remember: what's your ideas about how the next one should go?

[Doublea A]

I am planning on Recording and Posting "On Green Dolphin street" today.

I have learned all 32 bars.

[lawson-stone]

So here is my final post on this thread. Time to let the season change to "Autumn" and "Leave" this one!

I post also as an act of defiance against the uncivil and harsh posts that just wrangle over pointless debates instead of making music. "Make Music, Not War" is my creed.

This is the head, the Conti solo, and the head again, played with some attempts at improvisational flourishes. Apologies to Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Jimmy Bruno, and competent players everywhere!

[losaltosjoe]

So here is my final post on this thread. Time to let the season change to "Autumn" and "Leave" this one!

I post also as an act of defiance against the uncivil and harsh posts that just wrangle over pointless debates instead of making music. "Make Music, Not War" is my creed.

This is the head, the Conti solo, and the head again, played with some attempts at improvisational flourishes. Apologies to Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Jimmy Bruno, and competent players everywhere!

Loved it Lawson! You played it with energy and passion. And you nailed the Conti solo! Looking forward to seeing everyone over at Project 3/Autumn Leaves.

[andyb]

So here is my final post on this thread. Time to let the season change to "Autumn" and "Leave" this one!

I post also as an act of defiance against the uncivil and harsh posts that just wrangle over pointless debates instead of making music. "Make Music, Not War" is my creed.

This is the head, the Conti solo, and the head again, played with some attempts at improvisational flourishes. Apologies to Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Jimmy Bruno, and competent players everywhere!

Great job Lawson, you have worked hard on that and your hard work has paid off.
I am a little confused though,
I thought we were now posting such clips to the "Songs" thread and just informing everyone here? I thought that was a good idea of yours, because it makes us consntrate on just the Conti stuff here, without the pressure of feeling we have to learn the melody as well, I don't think Mr Conti asks us to learn the melody?
Plus, playing as good as yours may get others to join the group, they might leave the gear page for a while and look at the songs page, perhaps they will realise this forum should be about playing and mutual support, and not about arguing about who has the best gear. I suspect people would not bother to look in to this study group, I don't look at any of the other Study Groups. But they just might look at the songs page.

[lawson-stone]

Great job Lawson, you have worked hard on that and your hard work has paid off.
I am a little confused though,
I thought we were now posting such clips to the "Songs" thread and just informing everyone here? I thought that was a good idea of yours, because it makes us consntrate on just the Conti stuff here, without the pressure of feeling we have to learn the melody as well, I don't think Mr Conti asks us to learn the melody?
Plus, playing as good as yours may get others to join the group, they might leave the gear page for a while and look at the songs page, perhaps they will realise this forum should be about playing and mutual support, and not about arguing about who has the best gear. I suspect people would not bother to look in to this study group, I don't look at any of the other Study Groups. But they just might look at the songs page.

I'm sorry for confusing anyone. I had thrown that idea out there, but it was just one idea of mine, and I don't recall anyone chiming in for or against. It would make sense, though and if everyone likes that idea we can do that.

I am not the "leader" of this group--I can't say what anyone should or should not post. I just try to be the cheerleader who keeps us going generally in the direction we've chosen.

[Doublea A]

Here is my contribution to the thread.

The melody is inspired by my favourite version of the song recorded by Canadian Jazz Guitarist Lenny Breau. I believe that I posted it earlier in this thread.

Robert Conti - On Green Dolphin Street

Here are some interesting things I took away from the Robert Conti solo

1. Bars 5 and 6. I love the double stops. It gives a little Rock and Roll "Street Cred"to this otherwise very sophisticated solo.

2. Bars 13 through 16. The subtle chromaticism used to move from the 6th position to the 3rd position and then the not so subtle jump to the 7th position.

3. Bars 13 through 16. Looking at Bars 13 and 14 and comparing them to 15 and 16 you will notice that the melodies and totally different however, the rhythm is exactly the same. This displays the beginning or a rhythmic development or a rhythmic motif.

4. Bars 17 through 20. I changed the fingerings to match the fingerings that I had learned from a previous Joe Pass solo. Nevertheless, I think that most people would opt to play something in C major, then repeat it in C minor. However, Conti moves it from C major to Eb major. Brilliant !!

5. Bars 21 and 22. Too many triplets would be dizzying. This is the perfect amount and because he only does it once it really stands out. Brilliant.

6. Bars 29 and 30. A Sequence. Once again too many sequences sounds unimaginative. However, just using it sporadically is very effective.

7. Bars 31 and 32. More double Stops. Once again I changed the fingerings to suit me. Well balanced with a few double stops near the beginning and a few at the end.

Let me know what you think.

On to Autumn Leaves

[losaltosjoe]

Here is my contribution to the thread.

The melody is inspired by my favourite version of the song recorded by Canadian Jazz Guitarist Lenny Breau. I believe that I posted it earlier in this thread.

Robert Conti - On Green Dolphin Street

Terrific job DoubleA! I really enjoyed your take on the song, the solo, and the analysis. I'm looking forward to working with you on Autumn Leaves.

[andyb]

Doublea A

Great playing, tone and feel on your version.

Thanks for the detailed analysis of the solo, that is really useful for me as I am making a list of the lines for future reference. Most of the things you have written I had worked out already, but number 4 was an interesting insight.

Is there any chance you could look through Satin Doll and do the same?

[Doublea A]

Doublea A

Great playing, tone and feel on your version.

Thanks for the detailed analysis of the solo, that is really useful for me as I am making a list of the lines for future reference. Most of the things you have written I had worked out already, but number 4 was an interesting insight.

Is there any chance you could look through Satin Doll and do the same?

Sure Andy. I take a closer at it today or tomorrow and get back to you.
Should I post it here ? or on the Satin Doll thread ?

[andyb]

Sure Andy. I take a closer at it today or tomorrow and get back to you.
Should I post it here ? or on the Satin Doll thread ?

Great thanks, I suppose the Satin Doll thread?

[Doublea A]

I put this analysis in 2 places because I wasn't sure that I had done it properly. So apologies to those who are getting it twice.

Here is my analysis of the Satin Doll solo.


I am focusing on devices that we can learn and then use elsewhere in out playing.


1. Bars 1 through 4. The first bar begins on an E. Had it been a D it would have clearly outlined a D-7. By starting on the E, Conti shows us right off the bat that we do not need to always start on a chord tone in order to outline the chord. Secondly the E acts as a leading tone to the F which the "real" starting point for the arpeggio. He ends the phrase with an Eb implying a D-7b9. A little hipper than ending on a D or an F.
Bar 3 starts off with same notes as bar 1 but then moves in a different direction. This reminds me of the classical technique known as Theme and Variation. I guess this is the Jazz version of that technique.
Bars 1 and 2 have almost the identical rhythm as bars 3 and 4, there is just one slight difference. Conti likes to use these rhythmic motives. They make the solo sound more coherent and much more melodic. The only rhythmic difference between these two phrases is that there is a quarter note at the end of bar 1 and there are 2 eighth notes at the end of bar 3. This emphasizes that Eb that we discussed earlier.
A lot of stuff there in the first four bars.


2. The triplets in bar 6. Another Conti device. He does a similar thing in bar 9 of "Green Dolphin Street". He plays an arpeggio in the form of a triplet and he approaches it via a semitone. This is something that can easily be transported into other songs


3. Bars 13 and 14. Wes Montgomery style chords. If you do a lot of this it sounds contrived, but by placing it in choice situations makes it stand out.


4. The Bridge. Beginning at Bar 17. The Bridge, structurally, is a different part of the song. Conti accentuates this by moving to a new location on the neck.


5. Bars 21 and 22 versus Bar 23 and 24. Another rhythmic motif. Essentially the same rhythm.


6. Bar 27. Triplets. Most of this song is based on eighth notes. The fact that Conti plays these as triplets indicates that he wants it to stand out. The fact that he is playing a chromatic lick also makes it stand out. He also used triplets in Bars 21 and 22 of Green Dolphin Street.


7. Bars 29 and 30. More Rock and Roll double stops. Something you expect to see in a Chuck Berry or Keith Richards solo. These double stops give Conti's solo "street cred". As he states in his video, he learned to play in the streets of Philadelphia not in the lecture rooms of Juliard. Bars 29 and 30 are evidence of that.


8. Bars 31 and 32. Combining double notes with single notes. Brilliant !!

[lawson-stone]

I put this analysis in 2 places because I wasn't sure that I had done it properly. So apologies to those who are getting it twice.

Here is my analysis of the Satin Doll solo.


I am focusing on devices that we can learn and then use elsewhere in out playing.


1. Bars 1 through 4. The first bar begins on an E. Had it been a D it would have clearly outlined a D-7. By starting on the E, Conti shows us right off the bat that we do not need to always start on a chord tone in order to outline the chord. Secondly the E acts as a leading tone to the F which the "real" starting point for the arpeggio. He ends the phrase with an Eb implying a D-7b9. A little hipper than ending on a D or an F.
Bar 3 starts off with same notes as bar 1 but then moves in a different direction. This reminds me of the classical technique known as Theme and Variation. I guess this is the Jazz version of that technique.
Bars 1 and 2 have almost the identical rhythm as bars 3 and 4, there is just one slight difference. Conti likes to use these rhythmic motives. They make the solo sound more coherent and much more melodic. The only rhythmic difference between these two phrases is that there is a quarter note at the end of bar 1 and there are 2 eighth notes at the end of bar 3. This emphasizes that Eb that we discussed earlier.
A lot of stuff there in the first four bars.


2. The triplets in bar 6. Another Conti device. He does a similar thing in bar 9 of "Green Dolphin Street". He plays an arpeggio in the form of a triplet and he approaches it via a semitone. This is something that can easily be transported into other songs


3. Bars 13 and 14. Wes Montgomery style chords. If you do a lot of this it sounds contrived, but by placing it in choice situations makes it stand out.


4. The Bridge. Beginning at Bar 17. The Bridge, structurally, is a different part of the song. Conti accentuates this by moving to a new location on the neck.


5. Bars 21 and 22 versus Bar 23 and 24. Another rhythmic motif. Essentially the same rhythm.


6. Bar 27. Triplets. Most of this song is based on eighth notes. The fact that Conti plays these as triplets indicates that he wants it to stand out. The fact that he is playing a chromatic lick also makes it stand out. He also used triplets in Bars 21 and 22 of Green Dolphin Street.


7. Bars 29 and 30. More Rock and Roll double stops. Something you expect to see in a Chuck Berry or Keith Richards solo. These double stops give Conti's solo "street cred". As he states in his video, he learned to play in the streets of Philadelphia not in the lecture rooms of Juliard. Bars 29 and 30 are evidence of that.


8. Bars 31 and 32. Combining double notes with single notes. Brilliant !!

This is a really helpful analysis to me because it focuses on the player's insights, not just a system of theory. Systems of course are good and helpful, but this really rang bells for me.

I'd commented early on about how the lines for Dm7-G7 and Em7-A7 started the same, and that triggered a phone call to me from Robert Conti himself! He said that this feature of the solo was sort of the "golden egg" of the solo, where the player breaks out of thinking they have to outline the chord changes slavishly. He ended up on the phone with me for about 45 minutes!

That alone sealed my fate as a Conti fan. More than a customer, now I'm a "subscriber."

[andyb]

I put this analysis in 2 places because I wasn't sure that I had done it properly. So apologies to those who are getting it twice.

Here is my analysis of the Satin Doll solo.


I am focusing on devices that we can learn and then use elsewhere in out playing.


1. Bars 1 through 4. The first bar begins on an E. Had it been a D it would have clearly outlined a D-7. By starting on the E, Conti shows us right off the bat that we do not need to always start on a chord tone in order to outline the chord. Secondly the E acts as a leading tone to the F which the "real" starting point for the arpeggio. He ends the phrase with an Eb implying a D-7b9. A little hipper than ending on a D or an F.
Bar 3 starts off with same notes as bar 1 but then moves in a different direction. This reminds me of the classical technique known as Theme and Variation. I guess this is the Jazz version of that technique.
Bars 1 and 2 have almost the identical rhythm as bars 3 and 4, there is just one slight difference. Conti likes to use these rhythmic motives. They make the solo sound more coherent and much more melodic. The only rhythmic difference between these two phrases is that there is a quarter note at the end of bar 1 and there are 2 eighth notes at the end of bar 3. This emphasizes that Eb that we discussed earlier.
A lot of stuff there in the first four bars.


2. The triplets in bar 6. Another Conti device. He does a similar thing in bar 9 of "Green Dolphin Street". He plays an arpeggio in the form of a triplet and he approaches it via a semitone. This is something that can easily be transported into other songs


3. Bars 13 and 14. Wes Montgomery style chords. If you do a lot of this it sounds contrived, but by placing it in choice situations makes it stand out.


4. The Bridge. Beginning at Bar 17. The Bridge, structurally, is a different part of the song. Conti accentuates this by moving to a new location on the neck.


5. Bars 21 and 22 versus Bar 23 and 24. Another rhythmic motif. Essentially the same rhythm.


6. Bar 27. Triplets. Most of this song is based on eighth notes. The fact that Conti plays these as triplets indicates that he wants it to stand out. The fact that he is playing a chromatic lick also makes it stand out. He also used triplets in Bars 21 and 22 of Green Dolphin Street.


7. Bars 29 and 30. More Rock and Roll double stops. Something you expect to see in a Chuck Berry or Keith Richards solo. These double stops give Conti's solo "street cred". As he states in his video, he learned to play in the streets of Philadelphia not in the lecture rooms of Juliard. Bars 29 and 30 are evidence of that.


8. Bars 31 and 32. Combining double notes with single notes. Brilliant !!

Thank you so much for doing that, you have pitched it just right, not to much scales and modes talk, but instead a clear outline of what is going on in these solos.
This will be helpful when we start constructing our own solos from the lines.

Your contribution to the thread with the analysis and your plying also, is much appreciated.


I have just got home from the Cheltenham Jazz Festival where I listened to the Snarky Puppy

guys giving a masterclass, talking about there creative process and a little playing, Inspirational stuff.
I am going to London on Friday to see them playing at the Brixton academy with some friends, so really looking forward to that.

Amongst other things they advised getting out there and playing with other people. I am not ready for that yet, but I feel that things are going in the right direction now.

[Doublea A]

My plan is: after the fourth instalment of the Robert Conti TTI, I will construct a solo using many of the Conti devices that we have learned. Listing/Organizing them this way helps me to see how the same devices come up again and again. I don't want to reinvent the wheel, I just want to ride it.

As for getting out and playing, I agree. I have a music degree and I play professionally 2 to 4 gigs per week. I have been teaching music for 30 years. I enjoy Study Groups like this one because I like to continue to seek out new learning opportunities. One of weekly gigs is hosting a local Jazz Jam. This is where you get to connect to other musicians, share ideas etc. I recommend you find a local jam. Learn the h&ll out of 2 or 3 songs and get up and play your songs.


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