Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing - Thread Index

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Pages 2 through 5 - Introduction and Chapter 1 - Getting Started

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapters 2 & 3 - Chapters 2 & 3 - Organizing Arpeggios

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapters 4, 5 and 6 - Chapters 4, 5 & 6 - Situation Playing and the Connecting Game

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 7 - Chapter 7 - Expanding Note Options with Added Color Tones

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 8, 9 & 10 - Chapter 8, 9, & 10 - Melodic Minor, Reference Sheets and Adding altered tones

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 11 - Chapter 11 - Connecting Game with the Altered Scale

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 12 - Chapter 12 - The Locrian #2 Scale

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15 - Chapter 13, 14, 15; Writing licks, Inserting Licks, Disguising Licks

Study Group: Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 16 & 17 - Chapter 16 & 17; Harmonizing the Melodic Minor Scale for Altered Dominants and mi7(b5) chords

Hello,I like the idea of arpeggios,and common chord proggresions that this book uses,but I think it would be much better if the book included standard notation or tab for the lazy person like me.I have learned awesome concepts of the bebop greats through various books and cds and it is always easier to learn this complex music if I don't have to tab it out.

If any other newbie is as confused as I was about what book is actually being referred to, it is this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-J.../dp/0634009702

I had to read through 14 messages in the introductory thread before running across a link to it, although by then I'd finally figured out that I should just google the thread title, which I did, and got hit at amazon.com.

Saw this blog post today that features Kurt Rosenwinkel talking about practicing pentatonics using a method similar to "connecting game." Though some of you would be interested. Made me think you could try some other ideas, such as melodic cells (1-2-3-5, 1-3-4-5, etc).

The Music of Kurt Rosenwinkel: Pentatonics

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Originally Posted by fep

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...tml#post218966 - Introduction and Chapter 1 - Getting Started

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...ers-2-3-a.html - Chapters 2 & 3 - Organizing Arpeggios

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...s-4-5-6-a.html - Chapters 4, 5 & 6 - Situation Playing and the Connecting Game

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...apter-7-a.html - Chapter 7 - Expanding Note Options with Added Color Tones

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...-8-9-10-a.html - Chapter 8, 9, & 10 - Melodic Minor, Reference Sheets and Adding altered tones

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...pter-11-a.html - Chapter 11 - Connecting Game with the Altered Scale

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...pter-12-a.html - Chapter 12 - The Locrian #2 Scale

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...3-14-15-a.html - Chapter 13, 14, 15; Writing licks, Inserting Licks, Disguising Licks

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Thanks for starting this Fep! I think that this is a GREAT book for converting blues/rockers. Mind you, it's not chock full of notated jazz patterns, but those can be obtained from countless other sources.

Very practical, just great.

Ordered the book today. Looking forward to getting stuck in. :D

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Originally Posted by cooltouch

If any other newbie is as confused as I was about what book is actually being referred to, it is this one:

An Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing BK/CD (Introduction to Book & CD): Joe Elliott: 9780634009709: Amazon.com: Books

I had to read through 14 messages in the introductory thread before running across a link to it, although by then I'd finally figured out that I should just google the thread title, which I did, and got hit at amazon.com.

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thanks for not making me go through the whole thread!

I think that this is a GREAT book for converting blues/rockers. Mind you, it's not chock full of notated jazz patterns, but those can be obtained from countless other sources.

I heard about this book. I'm going to read it;)

I'm just on page 7 (arpeggios) and wondering about his instructions to be strict about alternate picking. For example, consider this one, a screen grab from this nice web site: MajP1 - minP2 - jamb

Attachment 38069

Does he mean that to play it like this:

F down
A up
C down
E up
F down
.....

It feels very unnatural to me. I realize that may because I am just learning how to do it, but I'd like to check that this is really what's intended!

Also, I came across this youtube video, I assume added by a helpful member of this forum: Introduction To Jazz Guitar Soloing by Joe Elliott - Major Pattern Arpeggios 150bpm - YouTube

Looking around 1:08 at the first pattern 1 arpeggio, it looks very much to me as though he's sweeping the first few notes, which feels more comfortable to me.

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Originally Posted by rlyacht

Does he mean that to play it like this:

F down
A up
C down
E up
F down
.....

It feels very unnatural to me. I realize that may because I am just learning how to do it, but I'd like to check that this is really what's intended!

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Yes. If you've never done anything with alternate picking that way, it may well be worth the effort. There are many players who consider it "the way".

There are also others who never use it. There are others still who don't use it as much or usr a combination of techniques, but who still advocate it in the beginning as a fundamental technique reference.

You'll get a wide variety of answers on this and none are necessarily wrong. I WOULD say that if many teachers encourage it in the beginning, like Elliot, it's certainly worth exploring. I found it very helpful personally.

Thanks Matt, that's very helpful! I've been playing a long time, but not in a disciplined way. Doing this will require me to "unlearn" habits I've acquired over many years as a blues/rock player. But I can see that my way can be sloppy even if it is much faster than I can do with alternate picking.

I'm up for trying it, and I just wanted to be sure I wasn't completely misunderstanding.

I took this book out again last night and again today.

Part of it is like what I've been doing with "CAGED" fingerings lately---playing all 7 diatonic arpeggios of a major key from a single fingering.

But now I'm going to play 'the connecting game' again and see how much better I can do it than I could the last time I tried, maybe two years ago now.

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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I took this book out again last night and again today.

...

But now I'm going to play 'the connecting game' again and see how much better I can do it than I could the last time I tried, maybe two years ago now.

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I'm looking forward to that part - it seems like a great exercise for me. But I'm going to (try to) force myself to go through it linearly and even to give the alternate picking a shot first :-)

Thanks for your helpful : o: smile-new:: redface-new:

Can't really understand why the author didn't create arpeggio charts for all the patterns. Did anyone here do that?

May I ask, how long did it take for you to remember the arpeggio patterns in one major scale pattern? I am having a hard time remembering the shapes. I can easily play the arpeggios through the major scale pattern, if I think about the chord tones. But then I am not really playing shapes, I am just using fretboard knowledge. If I move the shape just one fret down, or even two, I would have problems, as I don't know the chord tones.


I see JustinGuitar.com says he used arpeggio patterns from just two major scale patterns for many years. I guess I kind of understand that. Two patterns = 14 arpeggio shapes for a major scale, and 14 for minor..

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Originally Posted by znerken

May I ask, how long did it take for you to remember the arpeggio patterns in one major scale pattern? I am having a hard time remembering the shapes. I can easily play the arpeggios through the major scale pattern, if I think about the chord tones. But then I am not really playing shapes, I am just using fretboard knowledge. If I move the shape just one fret down, or even two, I would have problems, as I don't know the chord tones.


I see JustinGuitar.com says he used arpeggio patterns from just two major scale patterns for many years. I guess I kind of understand that. Two patterns = 14 arpeggio shapes for a major scale, and 14 for minor..

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I couldn't do it by shape very well, so, instead, I learned all 12 keys by chord tones.

I found that it didn't work well enough at high speed, so I did drill some arp shapes which I built through muscle memory -- I still can't visualize the pattern. If I had to put dots on a grid, I'd have to think about the name of each note.

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Originally Posted by znerken

Can't really understand why the author didn't create arpeggio charts for all the patterns. Did anyone here do that?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by znerken

May I ask, how long did it take for you to remember the arpeggio patterns in one major scale pattern? I am having a hard time remembering the shapes. I can easily play the arpeggios through the major scale pattern, if I think about the chord tones. But then I am not really playing shapes, I am just using fretboard knowledge. If I move the shape just one fret down, or even two, I would have problems, as I don't know the chord tones.


I see JustinGuitar.com says he used arpeggio patterns from just two major scale patterns for many years. I guess I kind of understand that. Two patterns = 14 arpeggio shapes for a major scale, and 14 for minor..

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Honestly, it was working through this book which led me eventually to a different path. Eventually went with what Reg has laid out in the other thread in which he attached the PDFs.

I personally think it's a better way than learning everything in one position at a time, the way it's laid out in the Joe Elliott book. Still do the connecting game type thing, but I do it with the way that Reg lays out. It's not single position . Very often it's working your way up or down the neck. It's actually pretty cool to start looking at things that way. When you get comfortable with it, you can cycle up the neck or down from moving through chord progressions . Really should be able to do it anywhere.

It's a great method. I wish I'd found it 10 or 15 years ago honestly.

Honestly, I think the Joe Elliott laid out the two positions he did in the book for this thread precisely BECAUSE they are the two easiest. They require the fewest decisions. You don't really have to shift or stretch anything. The other positions are where the real problems come and real work. Pushed me to a different methodology. I wanted something that made more sense than the front end. Umm.

Is it explained somehwere? It’s not easy to understand from just some PDFs with tab. Is it a complete scale system, or?

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Originally Posted by znerken

Is it explained somehwere? It’s not easy to understand from just some PDFs with tab. Is it a complete scale system, or?

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You mean Reg or the Joe Elliott book?

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Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher

You mean Reg or the Joe Elliott book?

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Reg, if it is that much easier. I need to commit to a good jazz system that will help me be able to learn arpeggio and scale shapes. And it should be good for future stuff, and work good in other genres as well. For example if I feel bluesy one day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by znerken

Reg, if it is that much easier. I need to commit to a good jazz system that will help me be able to learn arpeggio and scale shapes. And it should be good for future stuff, and work good in other genres as well. For example if I feel bluesy one day.

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I'm not Reg obviously but will add a note here.

Scales and arpeggios on the guitar are just a technical foundation for playing music. You can used CAGED, or "CAGED plus*" or 3NPS or Leavitt (Reg uses 7 fingerings that are a subset of Leavitt's 12). You can utilize 7-8 one octave arpeggios which can be linked together for two octave arpeggios like I mentioned, or use a few more as a result of leveraging 3NPS or Leaviit. No big whoop, conceptually speaking anyway. Just some work.

When it comes to Jazz soloing however, you will need to learn and practice "The Jazz Language" or "Jazz Vocabulary", and you will need to work very long and hard on it. Scales and arpeggios are part of the foundation for that, but not the building and not the penthouse.

There are many methods and approaches for learning the jazz language, the obvious time tested one being to play transcribed solos. If you want one book to really give you an invaluable insight into this, check out Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony by Bert Ligon. Chapter 10 in particular will open your eyes, ears and mind into the reality of the difference between running scales and arpeggios and playing effective jazz solos.

You need to have the facility to do both, and they overlap, but they are not one and the same.


* meaning, CAGED plus a few favorite fingerings from 3NPS or Leavitt.

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Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt

I'm not Reg obviously but will add a note here.

Scales and arpeggios on the guitar are just a technical foundation for playing music. You can used CAGED, or "CAGED plus*" or 3NPS or Leavitt (Reg uses 7 fingerings that are a subset of Leavitt's 12). You can utilize 7-8 one octave arpeggios which can be linked together for two octave arpeggios like I mentioned, or use a few more as a result of leveraging 3NPS or Leaviit. No big whoop, conceptually speaking anyway. Just some work.

When it comes to Jazz soloing however, you will need to learn and practice "The Jazz Language" or "Jazz Vocabulary", and you will need to work very long and hard on it. Scales and arpeggios are part of the foundation for that, but not the building and not the penthouse.

There are many methods and approaches for learning the jazz language, the obvious time tested one being to play transcribed solos. If you want one book to really give you an invaluable insight into this, check out Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony by Bert Ligon. Chapter 10 in particular will open your eyes, ears and mind into the reality of the difference between running scales and arpeggios and playing effective jazz solos.

You need to have the facility to do both, and they overlap, but they are not one and the same.


* meaning, CAGED plus a few favorite fingerings from 3NPS or Leavitt.

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Thank you for this. I really value tips on sounding like a jazz player. I just had a jam with friends, were we played autumn leaves. One thing I felt when I played myself, even though it was “the correct notes”, was that it wasn’t jazzy enough. If it were played on a trumpet, it would’ve though, cause I think I am affected by Miles Davis. However, I don’t feel like a jazz guitar player, so suggestions one how I can get better at that, is much appreciated. I am practicing like a maniac every day :-)

Suggestion on good guitarists I can transcribe? Right now I am doing bye bye blackbird. Don’t know what’s next, as my teacher decide. For autumn leaves, I transcribed Miles Davis.

Well if you are wanting to play in the traditional straight ahead bop and some post-bop style...

Wes Montgomery and Joe Pass

Others, and in no particular order: Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Jim Hall

There are several transcribed books on Wes (Steve Khan's book is a fave, but Wolf Marshall and others are out there too). There is now a Joe Pass Omnibook. Bottom line - lots of their great work is transcribed.


Just remember though, most of the material is advanced stuff, played by masters. Grant and Kenny are easier to play than Wes and Joe.