improvisation class / gary burton

[abdke99]

goood one

Improv Class - Gary Burton - YouTube

[M-ster]

Thanks for posting that link, adbke ...

Interesting that he is emphasizing chord-scales and that he never did much transcription. Lots of other good discussion, too.

[phdmerrill]

Cool. That whole channel seems like a goldmine. Thanks a ton for the share.

[phdmerrill]

Well, not the WHOLE channel. But digging around, there seems to be a good amount of jazz.

[abdke99]

accidantly find this one, when i saw there is two hours to it, man this got to be good, true goldmine

all the best Kerim

[dmorash]

Thanks for posting. Always good to hear a view from a master especially one with a strong backround in teaching. Brilliant.

[pingu]

Incredable improvisor

I took from that to do much more work on the scales
arps harmony tunes progressions etc
It seems you got to get them automatic so
the sub-consious side can play them
then you can be free to do the shaping , mood etc consiously

and hey he likes the guitar too ........
and comping is mainly about rhythm not harmony

That was great , thanks

[brwnhornet59]

I enjoyed the video. Thanx for posting it.

[pauln]

I watched the whole thing through and agree with his "philosophy" and observatio from experience.

I did think it was VERY INTERESTING where he was explaining how he taught himself the scales without knowing their names. That is the way I learned how to play - teching myself without naming things.

It seems so funny that his approach to teaching is to identify the named things when that is not how HE learned it. The same thing I noticed in a Joe Pass video where he clearly demonstrated over and over that his "knowledge" of what he is playing is not of the "named things", and he has to look, think, and translate what he did into the language of theory...

Based on the Burton video, it sounds like Stan Getz played by ear and likley taught himself without the theory of named things... Wes Montgomery, too?

So I guess my point is, if so many musicians self taught without naming things became great, why don't they suggest that same method. Why do they embrace the theory system that they themselves DID NOT USE to learn how to hear, play, and understand music?

Is there no longer an approach or method to learning music that just says. "Figure it out yourself"?

[brwnhornet59]

Look at Hal Galpers intro in Forward Motion. He states that the Masters of yore took apprenticeships and would by word of mouth translate their ideas, phrasing and inflections of what they were doing to their students. This is how the Art was passed down for generations. He went on to point out that Western Academies put theory in the forefront of teaching music and that it is backwards.

The flip side is when you are teaching a group in this day and age they usually have the academic aspect of basic theory already in their brains, so why change it now?

I to originally learned by ear and by imitation. When I started catching up scholastically with what I knew, I automatically renamed everything on my own and moved on. This was the best way to convey to others what I was doing as well as learning what they were doing. It is good to have common ground. To many musicians are stuck in what I call the Tower of Babel Syndrome. They know what they are talking about..but no one else does. I have seen bands like this, what a mess.

Of course if the other person does know what they are talking about and listens it becomes evident because they know the language. So why not know the language in the first place? I think it is paramount. Just a thought.

[abdke99]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Western Academies put theory in the forefront of teaching music and that it is backwards.

same thing when children learn to speak, we dont tech them gramar first, they listen and imitate what we talk.
I dont have formal education, never took guitar lessons specially jazz, when i play with guys who have in this case classical academies ,they play so stiff right on a beat, they know theory but dont know what to do with it.

dont get me wrong i need theory and spended much time learning it but it never gets before actual playing

all the best Kerim

[Jazzaluk]

I really enjoyed that vid. It is nice to hear a master acknowledge the listener as an essential consideration in improvisation.

[dmorash]

Interesting to me the importance he assigned to chord scales. Both in his lecture and in his critique of many of the student players in the last half of the video. I got a good dose of reality of the degree of fluency required - you can see it when he demonstrates it - he can just whip through a tune at speed playing 8th note lines almost no thought and at speed while outlining the changes. Hmm I can see I need some work on this and it's not hard to work on and is actualy kind of fun. Lots of other good info which reinforces things in the lecture as well.

[Larry Feldman]

Yes, he took pains to emphasize that we play for the listener, not just for ourselves. It was refreshing to hear that.