dominant jazz lines

[busterr]

I am learning some real tasty jazz lines from the Joe Pass method.Want to put these in songs but i am not sure how to fit a 4 bar dominant line into songs as not many songs stay on the dominant chord for 4 bars.It dosnt sound right over minor chords thats for sure.My basic question is where would you use such a line in a song.

[princeplanet]

use over the ii as well as the V, or just use a smaller chunk of the line.

[JakeAcci]

You can use an excerpt of the line (tip: make sure you work out a resolution/final note), as PP said you could use it over a ii7 V7 rather than just V7

Depending on the line, you could use it over a minor seventh chord a fourth below the intended dominant chord. So if it is a G7 line, you could use it or parts of it over Dm7 even if the Dm7 doesn't resolve to G7. This works better if there are fewer b9 or #9 over the dominant line.

You could also always double time it for a 2 bar stretch of a dominant chord or one bar of ii7 and one bar of V7!

[Nuff Said]

Listen and Learn the song "Killer Joe".

It has a lot of Dom chords on the A section, you can shorten your Dom lines and play them over each chord change. Or, just stay on C7 during the A section.

And, just Play the tune over the B section (Bridge).

Here's the chords:
[IMG]attachmentid=3310&stc=1&d=1327164046[/IMG]

Nuff

[AmundLauritzen]

What Jake said.
Extract the "Juice" from the lines. The parts that really outline the changes. A lot of what Joe does on that part of the DVD is centered around the dominant bebop scale, so you'd want to look out for parts where he uses that passing tone and all the other embellishments.

Besides using those lines on II-V-I's, you can really get a lot out of them by applying them to the rhythm changes bridge or the A-section of Sweet Georgia Brown. Resolving a dominant seventh to another dominant seventh is an essential skill, and it's excellent ear training too.
In that case, I'd take one line at the time and transpose it to the different keys so you can use it on each chord in that dominant sequence.
By transposing it like that you learn it better, and get more uses for it.
You could essentially play the same line over each dominant chord in the sequence if you work it out to resolve to the note the line starts on for each chord.
You'll get a lot in return for your practice that way.

[busterr]

great answers

Amon what do you mean by this can i get an example in notes


Resolving a dominant seventh to another dominant seventh is an essential skill,

[AmundLauritzen]

I could write out a line for you with analysis, but I need a little time to do that.
I can try to explain it better with words in the meantime.
Lets say you have the progression D7,G7,C7,F7 like on the rhythm changes bridge.
For D7, you could transpose one of the Joe Pass lines, but you'd change it so that when the line is over the G7, it resolves to one of the chord tones of G7(G,B,D or F), then you can continue with a dominant line on G7 and when the C7 comes around, you'd want to make sure your line lands on one of the chord tones of C7(C,E,G and Bb).

I'll get back to you soon with an example line.

[chigtrst]

As a couple of others said, you can use a dominant line over a ii or a V chord. You can also use dominant lines over Maj 7 chords and 1/2dim chords as well. For example, a G7 line can fit over Dm7 (the ii), G7 (the V), FMaj7 (bringing out the #11 extension), and Bm7b5 (which is a good sub for a G7 accentuating the 9 of G7).

Hope that's not too convoluted!!

Take care.

[AmundLauritzen]

Alright, here's a quick example showing how to use dominant lines and resolve them to other dominant chords.
Chords are D7,G7,C7,F7 two bars each then resolving to Bbmaj7 at the end.

This is not a high quality line, as I just tabbed it out real quick. I wouldn't say it's sufficient quality to be plugged into the rhythm changes bridge, but it will illustrate my point well. I assume you know the chord tones of each chord in the sequence.
Look at the resolutions.

The lines are mainly based off mixolydian and bebop scales from the roots of each of the chords. The bebop scale is essentially the sound that Joe invokes in the lesson on dominant chords, so knowing that scale helps hearing the lines better.

So when applying Joe's lines, you'd want to follow the same principle. Have the lines transposed to work on the chords you're playing over, and modify them to resolve to the chord tones of each chord as they change.

In the beginning, you'd want to work out as many of those lines in that fashion to apply them to as many situations as possible. After a while, you'll be able to improvise in new ways using those lines.

The line in my example is just to illustrate how to resolve to each new chord, and it was written fast so it's not very musically valuable. But it serves its purpose.

I hope that explained it a little better.

EDIT: I noticed my attached image got resized to the point of being unreadable. Any way to fix that?

[busterr]

Thanks so much amon, this will get me on the right track.I find it funny that Joe says he dosnt use arpeggios when in fact its almost all arpeggios

and beautiful stuff i will add

[busterr]

so these dominant lines dont work on the 1 chord even though all the notes are the same

e.g in g dominant over c

g b d f with added colour tones for taste maybe an

[busterr]

Can someone figure out how to make that image larger thanks

[princeplanet]

some lines are Dom inclined, some are Tonic inclined, some are both. As stated, A Dom line should work ok against chords based on each note of a diatonic Dom 7th chord. G7, Bm7b5, Dm7, F maj7. A Tonic line can work against Cmaj7, Em7, G7, Bm7 but resolving the lines is the key. Eg, if you play g-b-d-f against C maj 7 it sounds fine if it is immediately resolved to an e note.

Note that the Tonic family and the Dominant family have 2 chords in common, in this instance the G7 and the B half dim7. Sounds counter intuitive that a G7 arp can be played over C major but it's just an extension of the harmony to the 11th. Straight arp based ideas are kinda boring compared to extension based ideas, but I guess you should master the sound of the basics before you explore extensions.
I also recommend you stay away from Dom alterations until you master the handling of diatonic Dom extensions, as that ball game is in another league....

[AmundLauritzen]

Originally Posted by busterr

Can someone figure out how to make that image larger thanks

The original image is MUCH larger and clear to read. For some reason it got resized down to being unreadable when I uploaded it.

Anyone know why this happens?

In any case busterr, you can PM me your e-mail address and I can send you the image on e-mail.
Although it would be good if I could resolve the issue so that others can view it as well.

Any tech savvy people who can help?

[gersdal]

Including the actual picture in the post helps, but still the original is difficult to read I'd say.