mastering scales for improvisation

[larryb]

I am talking about "mastering" scales (well, i know there is no such thing because one can always go further), not just being able to play them. I know my major scales in all positions pretty well. I can get around ok. But I have a long way to go to really "know" them inside and out without thinking. Which is a better way to go about doing this? Playing them through the cycle of 5ths in one position until i know that position inside and out, backwards and forwards, upside and down, in my sleep? Or is it better to learn one key thoroughly through all the positions up and down the neck, and then move to the next key?

[Nuff Said]

Originally Posted by larryb

one position until i know that position inside and out, backwards and forwards, upside and down, in my sleep?

My personal finding was, the advantage of playing all the Major scales modes and Melodic Minor scale modes in all keys in one position, is that I could play song melodies and improvise on songs straight away in any key in one position.

I then added another position, then another, until I had the whole fretboard covered. It was a long, but interesting journey and it had the advantage of being able to play any song in any of the positions I had learned so far.

Nuff

[larryb]

Originally Posted by Nuff Said

My personal finding was, the advantage of playing all the Major scales modes and Melodic Minor scale modes in all keys in one position, is that I could play song melodies and improvise on songs straight away in any key in one position.

I then added another position, then another, until I had the whole fretboard covered. It was a long, but interesting journey and it had the advantage of being able to play any song in any of the positions I had learned so far.

Nuff

OK. Let me try to understand and maybe I'm asking the question wrong. When you say you learn all the keys in one position, to you mean in one shape in various places on the key board? Say, playing the C major scale starting with the second finger, 8th fret, on the 6th string, and then playing the F major scale starting with the second finger, 1st fret, 6th string, and so on?

Or do you mean playing the C major scale on the 8th fret, then finding the F major scale around the 8th fret, Bb major scale around the 8th fret, and so on?

[Sandor]

What scale system are you using? The way I did it was to play the CAGED shapes up and down the neck, one after the other for every key, then play in one position of the fret board through the cycle of 5ths, then the next position etc. I did that every day till I could visualize them instantly. After that I started working on diagonal/ horizontal fingerings that connect the shapes.

This might take 30 minutes or more at first, but you will know that you are making progress as your time improves. I do the same thing for other scales I learn, works great, and you can use a metronome to work on your tech/time while you do it.

[larryb]

It's more or less the CAGED shapes, with a few extras in there. I've got 7 shapes I'm using, plus another 2 diagonal shapes.

So, if I understand you, go through each of the shapes in one key, then through each of the shapes in the next key, etc.

Then pick one position on the neck and use whatever shapes it takes in that neck position to go through the cycle. Then once I go through the cycle in one position on the neck, go to another position and do it again, etc. That pretty much what you are suggesting?

[Sandor]

Originally Posted by larryb

It's more or less the CAGED shapes, with a few extras in there. I've got 7 shapes I'm using, plus another 2 diagonal shapes.

So, if I understand you, go through each of the shapes in one key, then through each of the shapes in the next key, etc.

Then pick one position on the neck and use whatever shapes it takes in that neck position to go through the cycle. Then once I go through the cycle in one position on the neck, go to another position and do it again, etc. That pretty much what you are suggesting?

That's right, it seems to work for me, and I know lots of other people do that as well.

[Nuff Said]

I use Leavitt positions, so I can play all 12 keys in one position. The same technique as used in this You tube video:

YouTube Video

Enjoy
Nuff