How to apply Arpeggio in Jazz improvisation

[NotYet100]

Hi friends

I'm a novice and a had whole heartedly learnt and memorised the arpeggio of that was built with triad, that is 1, 3, 5, 7 in major and 1, b3, 5, b7 in minor.

It took my a long while to memorise and now I can play ii,V,I format in a regulated pace.

While I will continue to train on speed and accuracy, I would like to seek advice from all friends here what is next for me.

I also wonder and have been searching on how I could apply the arpeggio for improvisation that I have learnt so far.

Any kind advice please.

Many thanks in advance.

[fep]

This is a good book that covers that subject well:

Amazon.com: An Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing BK/CD (Introduction to Book & CD) (9780634009709): Joe Elliott: Books

[AmundLauritzen]

You might want to experiment with the arpeggio, adding chromatic approach notes. Approaching the arpeggio from a half step below will make it sound more musical than just playing it vanilla. Also, I like to omit notes of an arpeggio. Try using just the 3rd and 7th of the arpeggio as a melodic device.

The way to use the arpeggios is to make them part of a melodic line. The trick is to make them sound like a natural part of the line and not just a copy-paste thing. This will take time, but when you start hearing it, your instincts will guide you to decide when an arpeggio is appropriate. I'd suggest also learning the m7b5, dom7th, diminished and augmented arpeggios as soon as possible. These will no doubt help your improvisation.
When you can play all these arpeggios, read up on diatonic substitution so you can understand how to use the basic 1,3,5,7(any quality, maj,min, dom,m7b5) to create any upper structure you want. You don't need to learn for example a G9 arpeggio as a separate entity when you can just use a Bm7b5 through diatonic substitution. Very powerfull stuff. If you know maj,min,dom,m7b5,dim and aug arpeggios then you can create lots of other sounds just from those.

Another thing worth checking out is taking a basic triad, major or minor, and adding the major second so it spells 1,2,3,5.
Many players create extended patterns from these, and it is a common thing to play on Giant Steps.

I hope this gives you a few ideas.

Lots of things you can do. But you'd probably want to find a structured method like the book fep suggested. That will help you put things in context.

[NotYet100]

Thaks fed, I bought the book and reading it now. Is a great book.

Thanks AmundLauritzen for the insights that I could see beyond where I am now.

[brwnhornet59]

+1 to Amunds post!

[Lori55]

Thaks fed, I bought the book and reading it now. Is a great book.

Thanks AmundLauritzen for the insights that I could see beyond where I am now.

[yongElayne]

Try using just the 3rd and 7th of the arpeggio as a melodic device.

[NotYet100]

I just bought a looper today hopping I can use it to play simple backing rhythm so that I could play the arpeggio along.

Any friends have any advices or if you could point me to a simple example in the Youtube or video site that I could use to kick start my learning journey please.

[NotYet100]

Originally Posted by yongElayne

Try using just the 3rd and 7th of the arpeggio as a melodic device.

Hi YongElayne,

I hope I got you correctly. I have tried just changing between the 3rd and 7th, that is the III7minor and VII7b5

I notice is easier to manage and I could still maintain some level of arpeggio sounding.

[kris]

look at John Scofield how he practise "Stella".

[Kman]

I'm sure there are some good arpeggio players out there. Maybe some members of the forum can recommend some players who use them well. I don't use them too much. In most of the solos I've transcribed over the years I have not seen arpeggios used too much. Maybe only 5-10% of the time do you see them used, but it is certainly a good effect when used properly.

[Flyin' Brian]

Metheny is all about arpeggios.

[brwnhornet59]

As is Martino, Benson, Bailey, Scofield, Stern etc...

[Kman]

Can you mention some specifice recordings? Most of the jazz players I listen too do not play arpeggios much at all.

[brwnhornet59]

Pick a song. Any song where there is a solo. Arps are everywhere. Most are multiple chord, 1 octave arps, mixed with chromatic's or scale fragments targeting the next arp, or in a sequenced line.

[Flyin' Brian]

Originally Posted by Kman

Can you mention some specifice recordings? Most of the jazz players I listen too do not play arpeggios much at all.

Both of these are loaded with arpeggios.

YouTube Video

YouTube Video

[marcwhy]

Notyet,
What does your teacher tell you to practice?

[NotYet100]

Originally Posted by marcwhy

Notyet,
What does your teacher tell you to practice?

I hope to try picking up Jazz here. No teacher at the moment. So I have to rely on advices from friends and experts here.

[JensL]

Originally Posted by Kman

Can you mention some specifice recordings? Most of the jazz players I listen too do not play arpeggios much at all.

I am a bit curious: Who do you listen to?

@NotYet100: I'd recommend playing some good bop etudes like the ones in Joe Pass Guitar Style or there is a Les Wise book I forgot the title. Ted Greene also has a book with some lines build from arpeggios. When you play good lines based around arps you'll get a better idea on how to use them.

Jens

[bluewaterpig]

Originally Posted by NotYet100

Hi YongElayne,

I hope I got you correctly. I have tried just changing between the 3rd and 7th, that is the III7minor and VII7b5

I notice is easier to manage and I could still maintain some level of arpeggio sounding.

No, he means try playing the 3rd and 7th of each of the arpeggios.

Like on Dm7, focus on the 3rd (F) and 7th (C). G7: 3rd (B) 7th (F). Cmaj7: 3rd (E) 7th (B).

The 3rd and 7th are good for beginners to target because they give the most colorful sound.

A very important piece of advice that I would give you is try not to start on the root of every chord's arpeggio. For example, when Dm7 comes along, try not to jump right to D. It's a dull sound.

[JensL]

Originally Posted by NotYet100

I hope to try picking up Jazz here. No teacher at the moment. So I have to rely on advices from friends and experts here.

Actually the quickest way is to find a teacher that you think plays well. You can get information from here and the internet, that's no problem. What you pay a teacher to do (if he or she is any good...) is to listen to your playing and from there help you get further by telling you what to listen for in your own playing, what to notice in recordings and it also is very nice to hear a good player perform in person instead of youtube...

Jens

[Kman]

[quote=JensL;191913]I am a bit curious: Who do you listen to?

I don't listen to a lot of guitar players. I notice guitar players place a big emphasis on them, but a lot of great improvisers don't use them as much as guitar players I think. One of my favorites Chet Baker does not use them very much.

[JensL]

Originally Posted by Kman

I don't listen to a lot of guitar players. I notice guitar players place a big emphasis on them, but a lot of great improvisers don't use them as much as guitar players I think. One of my favorites Chet Baker does not use them very much.

Just because Chet does not play them in consective 8th notes or 8th note triplets does not mean that he doesn't play them in 50% or more of his lines. In that way his playing is a very good example on how to be melodic with arpeggios since he does a lot of inverting or changing the order if the note instead of just running arpeggios up and down.

I don't agree with the statements: "guitar players use more appeggios than the average jazz musician" and "a lot of great jazz improvisers don't use arpeggios"

But maybe it is not something to start a big discussion about here.

Jens

[Kman]

Originally Posted by JensL

Just because Chet does not play them in consective 8th notes or 8th note triplets does not mean that he doesn't play them in 50% or more of his lines. In that way his playing is a very good example on how to be melodic with arpeggios since he does a lot of inverting or changing the order if the note instead of just running arpeggios up and down.

I don't agree with the statements: "guitar players use more appeggios than the average jazz musician" and "a lot of great jazz improvisers don't use arpeggios"

But maybe it is not something to start a big discussion about here.

Jens

I did not say the greats don't use arpeggios. When did I say that? I contend with Baker it's small part of his playing.

[brwnhornet59]

Kman, I suggest either you start listening harder or differently. Arps are one of the rudiments in the jazz language for everyone. You are waging a position that has no merit. I understand that you feel your position is valid, but in essence, arps are everywhere.

Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for you to start developing a new line of understanding. I mean no disrespect, we all have had conceptions that we thought were unshakable, only to find that when the illusion lifts, a world full of new ideas presented themselves.

[Kman]

Originally Posted by brwnhornet59

Kman, I suggest either you start listening harder or differently. Arps are one of the rudiments in the jazz language for everyone. You are waging a position that has no merit. I understand that you feel your position is valid, but in essence, arps are everywhere.

Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for you to start developing a new line of understanding. I mean no disrespect, we all have had conceptions that we thought were unshakable, only to find that when the illusion lifts, a world full of new ideas presented themselves.

I'm always open, that's why I was asking for some examples of guys who use a lot of arpeggios. Some players don't use them too much. Others use them a lot. With many players you can tell that their effort is "horizontal". A lot the lyrical or horizontal players were probably bored with arpeggios ... people like Young, Getz, Miles. There is no right answer. You completely misunderstand me. I am not waging a position. I do not have a position.

[brwnhornet59]

LOL, Fair enough! I indeed was in error.

With that being said, I still will tell you that the aforementioned players indeed use arps a lot, some are just camouflaged very well. A good player can insert lines that you would never think were what they were. All of these guys music are full of arps. Perhaps they are not in a context that you have your ear tuned into, but they are there Sir.

As was stated earlier, a lot of lyrical players play arps in staggered intervals and sequences. They are always in the melody. Remember, it only takes 3 notes to make an arp. Also triad pairing and playing extensions using 4 notes form one chord, 3 from another is also a very common thing.

I wish you luck!

[Flyin' Brian]

[quote=Kman;192077]

Originally Posted by JensL

I am a bit curious: Who do you listen to?

I don't listen to a lot of guitar players. I notice guitar players place a big emphasis on them, but a lot of great improvisers don't use them as much as guitar players I think. One of my favorites Chet Baker does not use them very much.

I apologise if I sound argumentative but I just listened to a couple of Chet Baker records I have and some Stan Getz. There are arps all over their solos.

[Kman]

[quote=Flyin' Brian;192216]

Originally Posted by Kman

I apologise if I sound argumentative but I just listened to a couple of Chet Baker records I have and some Stan Getz. There are arps all over their solos.

Don't apologize. Which solos are you taking about? I would love to check them out. I recently transcribed this Chet Baker solo and there are not many arpeggios used at all.

ladybird.pdf - File Shared from Box - Free Online File Storage

[Flyin' Brian]

The albums I Remember You, Milestone and Nightbird.