Scales: Stretches vs. Fixed Position (Sheet of Sound book)

[bluewaterpig]

I learned my scales in all positions using mostly fixed positions, meaning I wouldn't have any stretching or shifts unless absolutely necessary. I've been playing this way for 15 years.

I just bought Jack Zucker's 'Sheets of Sound' and all of his scales in Chapter 1 are with big stretches.

For instance, his major scale starts out like this:

---------------------------2---3----
---------------1---3---5------------ etc.
---1---3---5------------------------

As you can see, those "1 - 3 - 5" things require a large stretch in your fingers. In the 'Sheets of Sound' book, most of the scales in all different positions use stretches like this to keep 3 notes per string, and keep the sweep picking in order.

I have no problem playing these scale, it's just an absolute change from what I already have engrained in my head.


Does anybody play their scales like this? Is there an advantage to it? To me, it seems like these scales do a good job of letting you see the vertical layout of the instrument. Just curious.

[drobniuch]

guitar has a 2D "keayboard" we heave to deal with it's adventages and disadventages.

TIP: learn not only the 3 note per string scale but remember to view the arps in it

[max_power]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

Does anybody play their scales like this? Is there an advantage to it? To me, it seems like these scales do a good job of letting you see the vertical layout of the instrument. Just curious.

You should be able to do both. The more positions in which you are comfortable playing, the more fluent your playing will be.

Also, I would hardly call the fingerings you presented as "big stretches". They're fairly common.

[whiskey02]

Scales or arpeggios played as strict scales or arpeggios will seem a little ridiculous using the kinds of shapes in your example. But when you start adding chromatic and double chromatic approach notes, and encircling from above and below, to chord tones, you'll see why those fingering shapes are good to have under your belt.

[bluewaterpig]

Originally Posted by whiskey02

Scales or arpeggios played as strict scales or arpeggios will seem a little ridiculous using the kinds of shapes in your example. But when you start adding chromatic and double chromatic approach notes, and encircling from above and below, to chord tones, you'll see why those fingering shapes are good to have under your belt.

Yep, that's what I was thinking too. Scales with big stretches like these definitely present some advantages. I also see the notes in relation to one another much clearer when they're laid out like this.

Here are the first two positions for the heck of it. To most people, including me, I don't think these were the scale we were originally taught.

G Major Scale, first two positions.

1:
--------------------------------------------------5--7--8----
----------------------------------------5--7--8--------------
-------------------------------4--5--7-----------------------
---------------------4--5--7---------------------------------
------------3--5--7------------------------------------------
---3--5--7---------------------------------------------------


2:
----------------------------------------------------7--8--10---
-----------------------------------------7--8--10--------------
--------------------------------5--7--9------------------------
-----------------------5--7--9---------------------------------
--------------5--7--9------------------------------------------
----5--7--8----------------------------------------------------

The more and more I'm trying to use these, the more advantages I'm seeing. I remember seeing these a lot time ago and thinking why the hell would I learn these? I already know 5 fingerings I'm comfortable with. I've come to the conclusion that knowing both fingerings is really the way to go.

[Nuff Said]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

G Major Scale, first two positions.

1:
--------------------------------------------------5--7--8----
----------------------------------------5--7--8--------------
-------------------------------4--5--7-----------------------
---------------------4--5--7---------------------------------
------------3--5--7------------------------------------------
---3--5--7---------------------------------------------------


2:
----------------------------------------------------7--8--10---
-----------------------------------------7--8--10--------------
--------------------------------5--7--9------------------------
-----------------------5--7--9---------------------------------
--------------5--7--9------------------------------------------
----5--7--8----------------------------------------------------

These are standard 3 note per string patterns (3NPS), they been used for quite a long time, metal players use them a lot, Frank Gambale uses them, great for the down->down, up->up type picking.

http://www.discoverguitaronline.com/diagrams/view/34

Nuff

[bluewaterpig]

I'm not saying they're some new, unknown scales I just found out last week, I'm just asking how many people use these as opposed to fixed position scales.

[Nuff Said]

Originally Posted by bluewaterpig

I'm not saying they're some new, unknown scales I just found out last week, I'm just asking how many people use these as opposed to fixed position scales.

I use these 3 note stretches all the time, I have very big hands, so it isn't a problem, even at the 1st fret. I learn't the fretboard using a combination of Leavitt and 3NPS fretboard patterns, because they both use 3 note stretches.

Nuff

[bluewaterpig]

Originally Posted by Nuff Said

I use these 3 note stretches all the time, I have very big hands, so it isn't a problem, even at the 1st fret. I learn't the fretboard using a combination of Leavitt and 3NPS fretboard patterns, because they both use 3 note stretches.

Nuff

Again, I'm not saying these things are insanely hard and I can't do them or anything. I think that most guitar players can play these things with little or no trouble at all.

I'm asking if anybody uses these primarily over fixed position scales, or what advantages people see in these scales.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I learned those "open position" fingerings a long time ago, from this book, before anyone was shredding!



I don't think I used open position (3NPS) fingerings more than close position, but I use them both. I think it's a matter of what falls better under your fingers and pick.