Dominant chord interpretation ?!

[aniss1001]

I am currently at a stage where I'm struggling with the interpretation of dominant chords. Which extension I can use? Which scales to use over them?

Right now I'm trying to learn Stella by starlight. The chord progession I have (from Abersold vol. 68) is this:

A) :| Em7b5 | A7#9 | Cm7 | F7 | Fm7 | Bb7 | EbM7 | Ab7#4 |:

B) :| BbM7 | Em7b5 - A7#9 | Dm7 | Bbm7 - Eb7 | FM7 | Gm7 - C7 | Am7b5 | D7#9 |:

C) :| G7#9 | G7#9 | Cm7 | Cm7 | Ab7#4 | Ab7#4 | BbM7 | BbM7 |:

D) :| Em7b5 | A7#9 | Dm7b5 | Dm7b5 | G7#9 | Cm7b5 | F7b9 | BbM7 | BbM7 |:

My current doubts (there will be more):

Bar 2 (in A): The A7#9 indicates a perfect 5th rather than a raised one right? Which also indicates that you wouldn't play the altered scale, but rather the diminished right? I actually think in this case it sounds better with a raised 5th but I don't know (my ears are working overtime these days ). What do you think?

Bar 8 (in A): Ab7#4 I usually interpret as a lydian dominant scale. It doesn't always sound right but in this case it seems like the most inside sounds there is? Again what do you think?

Bar 2 (in B): In this case the melody note is the perfect 5th of the A7#9 so raising the 5th is a no go I think. So again would the diminished scale be a 1st choice to play over this? Or?

Bar 8 (in B) and bar 1,2 (in C): Both the D7#9 and the G7#9 indicates perfect 5ths, but to me it sounds wrong. However if I raise the 5th of both it resolves beautyfully. But still I would like a second opinion?

That's it for now. Hope I didn't scare you off by writing too much. Just trying to be thorough

[randalljazz]

in aebersold's system the 7#9 IS the alt chord, so #5 and/or b5 and #9 and/or b9. have never seen anyone else adopt jamey's system, but that is always what HE means by it.

likewise, he uses #4 to indicate the lydian dominant, whereas most of the rest of the world uses #11.

[beasleybubba]

It sounds like you're limiting yourself to playing only altered or diminished over dominant chords... have you messed around with mixo b9 b13 yet? It's a mode of harmonic minor and I'm pretty sure it will work in all those spots where you mention diminished. It has a bunch of those half steppy chord tone approach notes in it that give it a diminished sound. It's spelled out like this: root, b9, major 3rd, natural 4th, natural 5th, b13, b7.

To find easy fingerings just play harmonic minor up a fourth (or down a fifth).... so over a G dominant chord that wants to resolve to C, play c harmonic minor over the G dominant and then switch to what ever quality your C chord is to resolve. You'll definitely find this to be a familiar sound if you listen to a lot of jazz.

[aniss1001]

randalljazz:
Wow that was VERY nice to know and takes care of question 1,2 and 4 However in the 3rd case the melody note is the perfect 5th so that seems very odd?! And in general how then would Abersold distinguish between 7#9 chords with perfect 5th and raised 5th respectively?!

beasleybubba:
I've allways used the 5th mode of harmonic minor over dominants going to minors, even way before I was playing jazz. I have recently gotten used to using the altered scale too and I'm still struggeling getting used to the diminished as I mention here. By the way never heard the term "mixo b9 b13". I know the modes of harmonic and melodic minor don't have standard names like the church modes, but still I think the "phrygian dominant" would be a more common name for it. Just a thought..

Ah and thanks to both for replying

[beasleybubba]

I had trouble calling that at first, too... but a couple years ago, my jazz guitar teacher who was a Berklee grad insisted that I call it mixolydian b9 b13 cause that's what it is: mixolydian with a flatted 9 and 13. it's easier to pull out on the fly when you practice thinking of it in a simplistic manner.

It works over dominant chords that resolve to major, too... just gives it sort of a hip "deceptive" resolution... you hear Bird using it in this context a lot.

[aniss1001]

Yes the term makes sense. But so does "phrygian dominant" since it is (also) a phrygian scale with a raised 3rd thereby becoming a dominant scale rather than a minor. And it doesn't matter that much to me what you call it as long as it's clear what we're talking. For instance a mixolydian with a raised 4th could be called mixolydian #4, mixolydian #11, lydian dominant, lydian b7. They all make sense.

And yes I actually did play around with using the phrygian dominant on dominants going to major chords. Interesting sound. However these days my focus is on learning to play the changes in the most basic / inside sounding way.