Bert Ligon or Ed Byrne

larryb · #1 12-18-2011, 10:24 AM

This may not be a fair questions, but I'm thinking of buying some improv guidance books. Ed Byrnes first 3 books on his linear jazz improv approach look pretty good from what I can see in the overview material and the reviews. So does Bert Ligon's Connecting Chords with Linear Harmony book. Huge price difference.

Any suggestions which may be the best approach? Is it purely personal? Anyone who has used either can give feedback?

Thanks.

gersdal · #2 12-18-2011, 11:30 AM

Start with Ed Byrnes book Linear Jazz Improvisation: The Method (Book 1). This gives you the gist of his method IMHO.

I like them both and I would recommend them both, but if you can afford just one I would go for Ed Byrne.

Or maybe I would recommend the Theory books by Ligon. It all depends a little where you are in the learning curve I guess....

If you are quite basic I'd probably say the theory books by Ligon

If you know the basics but need to find ways to connect cords in a progression - then Ligons book on Connecting cords are good.

If you know all this, but came to realise that your improvisations are stale and boring from all this chord-scale things, then I would go for Ed Byrne.

gersdal · #3 12-18-2011, 11:36 AM

Ed Byrne's Functional Jazz Guitar may also be a good choice ... guessing you are a guitarist.

larryb · #4 12-18-2011, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gersdal

Ed Byrne's Functional Jazz Guitar may also be a good choice ... guessing you are a guitarist.

Yes, I am a guitarist. Lots of piano experience too, but have let that slide in recent years in favor of a guitar focus for now. Thanks for your advice.

whatswisdom · #5 12-18-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryb

Yes, I am a guitarist. Lots of piano experience too

Ligon would be a good choice for he's an excellent guitarist & pianist...

JonnyPac · #6 12-18-2011, 02:04 PM

+1 Bert Ligon!

Kman · #7 12-18-2011, 02:18 PM

I bought the Bert Ligon book a month ago. I've been playing jazz guitar for 20+ years and I can say this book is rock solid. I wish I had found it long ago. I bought it after seeing so many positive comments about it on this forum.

NSJ · #8 12-18-2011, 02:26 PM

I have both authors in my library and would highly recommend both.

I think Ligon's large 2 volume series, "Jazz Resources" is THE must have general jazz theory book for any jazz practitioner to have in his or her library. very compressive and deep. For more relevant, IMHO, than Levine.

Byrne's books and methodologies are best utilized by practitioners who already have some knowledge/theory in their background, but are not quite happy with the lines they are producing, feel like these lines are too mechanical, uncreative, non-grooving, not very musical or lyrical and want to really get to the heart of good improvisation.

Along with a third writer, Hal Galper, I think those three authors are about as good as it gets in terms of "no esoteric B.S., non-academic, essential, practitioner-based" jazz pedagogy. You can't go wrong with any of the three.

larryb · #9 12-18-2011, 02:30 PM

What a great forum this is! Thank you all very much for your thoughts and suggestions. 61 years old, playing most of my life on and off, and still not even close to where i would like to be musically. Never giving up and this is all very helpful advice.

TruthHertz · #10 12-18-2011, 02:42 PM

I've looked around for a good comprehensive book to learn and teach with. The Ligon is the clear choice for me. I tend to like getting the information clearly presented and then making out of it what I will. Bert's book has been well suited.
David

JonnyPac · #11 12-18-2011, 04:47 PM

Check out Forward Motion by Hal Galper too. Bert and Hal are my gurus these days- and I too wish I'd found them a decade ago!

gersdal · #12 12-18-2011, 05:32 PM

I need to do some statistics on how many posts it takes until the OP's post is irrelevant for the answers

Around 10 I guess

JonnyPac: I would really like if you could explain to me the essence of Forward Motion by Hal Galper. I've looked at it a few times (browsing maybe, but still...) and I'm not sure I get it.

JonnyPac · #13 12-18-2011, 11:16 PM

Take a peak at his youtube master classes (have them posted here). The book covers a lot of the ideas expressed there and much more. If you go to his site there is a nice big chunk of text fro the intro too.

Like other Sher music books *ahem* it could use a revised printing, but don't let that detour you from a purchase. It's solid gold.

JakeAcci · #14 12-18-2011, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gersdal

I need to do some statistics on how many posts it takes until the OP's post is irrelevant for the answers

Around 10 I guess

JonnyPac: I would really like if you could explain to me the essence of Forward Motion by Hal Galper. I've looked at it a few times (browsing maybe, but still...) and I'm not sure I get it.

It covers a lot of ground. I think it's main premise is on working towards resolving lines properly, and Galper is quite big on dissecting quotations from some of the big historical figures of jazz.

JonnyPac · #15 12-19-2011, 05:37 PM

Here's the thread of Galper Master Classes!!

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/impro...-must-see.html

nion · #16 12-21-2011, 04:48 AM

different approach, they both are great but if you really want to get into bebop, get Bert's book and go for it.

larryb · #17 12-21-2011, 02:48 PM

OK. Got Bert's book. Now to begin a multi-year journey going through it. Those of you who have used it, what's the best way to use the book? Go through the chapters consecutively? I notice that chapter 10 has outline exercises. Should chapter 10 be used in conjunction with the other chapters, or wait until I arrive at chapter 10. Suggestions for use of the book?

JonnyPac · #18 12-22-2011, 07:33 PM

I'd do a quick run through of the text, then hit the examples in more detail. I think Bert has an over arching concept that vol I and II sum up together. I really dig the opening 50 pages on rhythm, but then again, I dig all of it. Glad you pulled the trigger.

larryb · #19 12-23-2011, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

I'd do a quick run through of the text, then hit the examples in more detail. I think Bert has an over arching concept that vol I and II sum up together. I really dig the opening 50 pages on rhythm, but then again, I dig all of it. Glad you pulled the trigger.

Thanks for the tip, JP. Actually, I bought the Connecting Chords With Linear Harmony book, not the theory volumes. But I'll check them out at some time as well. Actually, I'm also intrigued by your book, and especially since I can get it as a pdf to read on my iPad.Perhaps that's next. But first I want to start digesting Ligon's CCWLH.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

larryb · #20 12-24-2011, 08:08 AM

Just started working with the Ligon's CCWLH book. Terrific. Elegant simplicity in the outlines but incredibly complex in where they can go. And very humbling as I begin to apply them. Man, I've got years ahead of me learning these through the cycle of 5ths, but they feel so natural under the scales. Hard work, but lots and lots of fun practicing these over a ii V7 IM7 jam track. Can't wait to apply them to tunes. I feel like something is finally starting to kick in.

JonnyPac · #21 12-24-2011, 03:42 PM

Bert's Connecting Chords is a great book. It was my first purchase from him too. The others are even better and cover way more ground. I'm glad you found what you are looking for- Enjoy!

PM me if you decide to check out my book too. The linear section is based on Bert's concepts of outline building, but does not go as far into variations and real examples- I posted all of it in a thread here if you want to see. The other 70 or so pages are on CST and fretboard thinking. Heavy on intervals and building blocks.

Rick5 · #22 05-22-2012, 11:18 AM

Hi All,
Bumping this thread up. I have all of the books mentioned on this thread and they are all great. I would also like to mention Mike Longo's work which covers some of the same ideas that are present in some of the books mentioned above. His book The Technique for Creating Harmonic Melody for the Jazz Improviser is particularly fantastic, but all three books I own from him are great. I will definitely be buying more.

Rick

JonnyPac · #23 05-22-2012, 12:59 PM

That book sounds cool- I'll check it out. Thanks

djangoles · #24 05-22-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick5

Hi All,
Bumping this thread up. I have all of the books mentioned on this thread and they are all great. I would also like to mention Mike Longo's work which covers some of the same ideas that are present in some of the books mentioned above. His book The Technique for Creating Harmonic Melody for the Jazz Improviser is particularly fantastic, but all three books I own from him are great. I will definitely be buying more.

Rick

I don't have that one, but I do have his "How To Sight Read Jazz And Other Syncopated Type Rhythms"....Highly recommend this. Also took a private rhythm lesson with him here in NYC. Really cool mellow guy....